In this episode of Talking to the Dead, I take a deep dive into one of the most disturbing and thought-provoking interpretations of the UFO phenomenon, drawing heavily from Final Events by Nick Redfern. What I found isn’t the usual narrative about extraterrestrial visitors—it’s something much stranger, and honestly, far more unsettling.

As I unpack the book, I explore the claim that a hidden faction within the intelligence world—referred to as the “Collins Elite”—came to believe that UFOs aren’t spacecraft at all. Instead, they may be manifestations of non-human intelligences that have been interacting with us for centuries, appearing in forms that match our expectations—whether that’s angels, demons, or now, aliens.

I also get into the connections Redfern draws between modern UFO encounters and historical occult figures like Aleister Crowley and Jack Parsons, and why those links, however speculative, are so compelling. When I look at alien abduction reports through this lens, the patterns start to feel less like science fiction and more like something psychological—or even symbolic.

But what really stuck with me is how this all challenges the core idea behind the Disclosure movement. I’ve always assumed that if something is being hidden, it’s extraterrestrial technology or contact. This book forced me to consider a different possibility: what if the truth is being withheld because it doesn’t fit any clear category at all?

I don’t claim to have answers in this episode. If anything, I walk away with more questions than I started with. But if you’re willing to sit with the uncertainty, this is a conversation that might change how you think about UFOs—and what they could actually represent.