In this episode, we chat with Dr. Kevin McCain about his new theory of epistemic justification. Phenomenal Explanationism (PE) overcomes problems with other views. When applied to religious belief it makes sense of how someone is justified in believing that God exists. We work through his article in The Cambridge Handbook of Religious Epistemology. We have fun along the way, and in the end he reveals his take on the problem of divine hiddenness. Enjoy the conversation!