Erin Pellegrino and Jake Rudin are the founders of Out of Architecture, a career consulting firm and resource network, where they are exploring the value of architectural skills both in and out of the profession. Through career consulting, career tools, and their recent book, Erin and Jake help architects leave architecture. In this conversation, we talk about the shape their consulting takes, what's missing from architecture and design education, and why so many designers want to leave the profession. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/239-erin-pellegrino-jake-rudin.
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239. Erin Pellegrino and Jake Rudin

Scratching the Surface is a podcast about design, theory, and creative practice. Hosted by Jarrett Fuller, each episode features wide-ranging conversations with designers, architects, writers, academics, artists, and theorists about how design shapes culture. Previous guests include architecture critic Paul Goldberger, MoMA design curator Paola Antonelli, architect and OMA partner Reinier de Graaf, Pentagram partner Michael Bierut, RISD President Rosanne Somerson, writer Kurt Andersen, and designer Jessica Helfand. Featured in Architectural Digest, Dezeen, Curbed, and Eye. New episodes every other Wednesday.

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Ingrid Schroder is the director of the Architectural Association School of Architecture in London. She was previously Head of Design Teaching and Director of the MPhil in Architecture and Urban Design at the University of Cambridge Department of Architecture. In this conversation, Jarrett and Ingrid talk about the legacy and future of the AA, the changing states of architecture and design education, and what experimental design education looks like today. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/252-ingrid-schroder.
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252. Ingrid Schroder

Cynthia Davidson is the cofounder and executive director of Anyone Corporation, a nonprofit architecture think tank. She is the editor of the architecture journal Log, and previously ANY magazine, an architecture theory tabloid that published from 1993-2000. She is also responsible for more than 40 books in print, including 24 books in the Anyone project’s Writing Architecture series, published with MIT Press. In this conversation, Jarrett and Cynthia talk about the evolution of architecture publishing, the state of design discourse, and how the visual design of Log and ANY shapes how it is read. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/251-cynthia-davidson.
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251. Cynthia Davidson

Jacob R. Moore was named the executive director of The Architectural League of New York in June 2023. He previously served as associate director of the Temple Hoyne Buell Center for the Study of American Architecture at Columbia University. He’s worked as a writer, editor, curator, and publisher and helped co-found The Avery Review. In this conversation, Jarrett and Jacob talk about the mission of The Architectural League, the role of non-profits in design discourse, and the changing state of design publishing. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/250-jacob-moore.
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250. Jacob Moore

José Esparza Chong Cuy is the executive director and chief curator of Storefront for Art and Architecture, a New York-based institution that amplifies the understanding of the built environment through artistic practice. Before Storefront, José was an associate curator at the Museum of Contemporary Art Chicago and an associate curator at the Museo Jumex. In this conversation, Jarrett and José talk about the history and mission of Storefront, their year-long curatorial framework, and balancing institutionalism and experimentation.  Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/249-jose-esparza-chong-cuy.
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249. José Esparza Chong Cuy

Kathleen and Christopher Sleboda run Draw Down Books, a publishing project and bookshop focused on graphic design, typography, and printed matter. They also work as graphic designers for clients and teach at Boston University, RISD, and the University of Connecticut. Previously, Christopher was Director of Graphic Design at the Yale University Art Gallery for 15 years and Kathleen worked as an archivist at the Beinecke Rare Books Library at Yale. In this episode, Jarrett talks with them about experimental publishing, publishing as a form of community building, and the continued relevance of printed matter. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/248-kathleen-christopher-sleboda. 
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 If you enjoy the show, please consider supporting us on Patreon and get bonus content, transcripts, and our monthly newsletter! www.patreon.com/surfacepodcast

239. Erin Pellegrino and Jake Rudin

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