#316: Josué, Lara, and Link discuss Eternals: the diverse cast, impossible choices, family dynamics, and argue whether or not Ikaris is a villain.

Josué Cardona 0:11
Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network. here at Geek Therapy We believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. My name is Josué Cardona. I’m joined by link Keller.

Link Keller 0:20
Helloooo, nerds,

Josué Cardona 0:22
and Lara Taylor.

Lara Taylor 0:25
Hey, people,

Josué Cardona 0:28
people, geeks

Link Keller 0:30
party people

Josué Cardona 0:31
Alright, so So today we’re gonna talk about the Eternals the movie. Because I’ve never read comics. And so the reason why I want to talk about this, but there’s a few, there’s a few reasons I think it touches did there’s one main idea in it that I won’t really want to talk about, but I think it’s a great movie with. I mean, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the movie. And it has a lot of pretty fleshed out characters, and they each have very unique abilities and personalities. But the big idea that I wanted to discuss is kind of, you know, central to the film. So if you have not watched the Eternals and you do not want spoilers. Please go away. Come back. Come back later.

Lara Taylor 1:24
Watch it come back. It’s on Disney plus.

Josué Cardona 1:26
Yeah, yeah. If you don’t know how you feel about spoilers, go back to our spoiler episode. I forget what, what what number that is. But I think about that episode all the time. Spoilers for the spoiler episode. It’s about research that shows that when stuff is spoiled for you, a lot of people like you actually enjoy it more. It’s almost like there’s a build up. Oh, stuff. I think it’s, yeah, anyway, go check that out that episode. It’s a it’s a it’s it’s got to be like at least 150 episodes ago, it was a while it’s been a few years. It’s been a while. Time. So the Eternals What is it about the movie that I have not stopped thinking about? And this is the way I see it. I’m curious what both of you think, but I feel that there were no villains in the movie. And that everybody there just had, like a purpose that they were trying to fulfill. And there was no good there was no completely good solution. Like in The Avengers, like in end game, right. They, there’s that Tony Stark quote, where he says, You know, I want to make sure that we that we regain everything we lost and don’t lose anything that we’ve gained. Like, he’s like, I want to make sure that across the board. I don’t I don’t want to lose anything. Right. Like every win win win. It was the plan. And that was the the objective. And here in this movie, I feel like the eternals there’s no way. Right like everybody, there’s no way to please everybody is kind of is kind of the the message and the thing that stayed with me the most, and I haven’t stopped thinking about it since I watched the movie a couple weeks ago. Thoughts. Lara, you you disagree? your face your face is strongly disagreeing.

Lara Taylor 3:38
I disagree. I disagree. Because anytime we talk about villains, we talk about how they there are reasons for their villainy. I think that murdering your friends, your mentor, and lying to everybody and putting up this two-faced, like oh yeah, I should. Like, I’m fine with not being the leader. And you know, oh, no, I’m Ajak is dead. Like

Josué Cardona 4:17
so you think Ikaris is the villain

Lara Taylor 4:19
He’s such a liar. He’s a he’s a liar. I don’t know if he’s like, I also feel like Arishem is also a villain because I think that once again, lying to all of them, not let it like if they all knew what they were supposed to be doing. That might be I think my biggest problem is the lying, not the murder.

Josué Cardona 4:44
Obviously, well

Lara Taylor 4:44
except for murdering your friends. That’s that’s this backstabber-y

Josué Cardona 4:50
that does bother you.

Lara Taylor 4:52
It does bother me. Gotcha, but it’s pretty good. I do think that like, Yes, everyone was put in impossible situations. I understand that like The premise of the movie is billions of lives sacrificed so that more than billion billions of billions more can be brought into the world. I get that. Also, you’re taking away people’s agency and choice, and you are lying and and deceitful. And then there’s some murder. So like, not just like, destroying the whole planet genocide, murder, but like, personal. I’m killing you because I disagree with you murder. I’m luring you out here into a trap murder.

Josué Cardona 5:40
I’ll disagree.

Lara Taylor 5:41
That’s villainy.

Josué Cardona 5:43
I’ll disagree and debate you more as we as we go on. Link, your your thoughts on this. On my interpretation of events,

Link Keller 5:54
I understand what you’re saying in that even the characters like Ikaris who are serving as antagonists, to our protagonists forward momentum through the story. Even even with the antagonism, he’s still understandable as to why he takes the actions that he takes. It’s, it’s, I think, a good reflection that we see Ikaris, in an effort to uphold the purpose that He has come to understand, he is willing to sacrifice Ajax as a way to maintain his purpose. And then reflecting that later, where Sersi and the rest of the Eternals choose to sacrifice their purpose in order to save the planet. And so there’s like a nice mirroring there, where somebody is still getting killed, somebody is getting sacrificed in order to for this thing to happen. But the difference is your personal mentor, someone you have a many 1000s of years relationship with versus an an unknowable being that is coming into creation, you do not have a relationship with that person. But yeah, I get what you’re saying. I do think that Ikaris is pretty villainous. Just given the lying aspects, like Lara said, is is

Lara Taylor 7:27
the deceit,

Link Keller 7:29
the withholding the information? Like he had the opportunity, he had the information and he had the opportunity to decide for himself that for him, it was more important that he maintained the purpose he believes that he had, but he didn’t give the rest of his team that opportunity. And I think that choice pushes it over into villainy. But again, understandable it’s understandable. Like how fucking hard would it be to be like, Look, you guys so big news, um, we’re here basically is like factory farmers. And everybody that we’ve worked so hard to like save and protect and help nurture and grow is about to get killed, eaten. But like, I’ve already decided that that’s worth it. And so, like, I don’t care what you guys think is kinda shitty. But yeah.

Josué Cardona 8:25
Do you think that Ikaris struggled with that at all?

Link Keller 8:30
I’m gonna say he struggled with it more, once The woman he was he’s in love with was like, Hey, bro, not cool.

Lara Taylor 8:40
he was pretty cold when it was Ajak.

Link Keller 8:43
Yeah,

Lara Taylor 8:43
for a bit.

Link Keller 8:44
Yeah, I think I think that honestly adds some depth to his character that in the moment with him and Ajax, he was certain and he was sure that he was making the right choice for him. And then when faced with the rest of his team, and they’re pretty unanimous, like rejection of his choice, and him having to be like, Oh, I’m less sure it was a good choice now. Which then ending with a solar suicide? WHAT

Lara Taylor 9:12
Oh, seen the memes like men will literally fly into t...