Starting from a controversy over Pope Francis’ recent statement that Ukraine should enter into peace negotiations with Russia, this interview with former President of Colombia and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Juan Manuel Santos queries into ethical dimensions of the Colombian peace negotiations with the FARC. Topics covered include the treatment of ‘the enemy’ as allies in the pursuit of peace, and the centrality of victims’ perspectives for the negotiation process. President Santos also discusses the virtue of careful planning, and the personal qualities that are required from a negotiator. Then, the conversation turns to lessons to be drawn for peace processes elsewhere, in particular the Israel-Palestine negotiations – both over Gaza and in continuation of the Oslo process. In the last part of the conversation, Santos argues for a pragmatic approach to justice where the idea is to get ‘as much justice as possible’ when making peace. The idea of peace versus justice is criticised for ignoring the justice of peace.

This podcast was recorded on 12 March 2024.