In this dialogue, Robert Gressis (UCal Northridge) and Hugo Mercier ( French National Center for Scientific Research, Not Born Yesterday) discuss how human belief and manipulation work, and Hugo's research about why people aren't as manipulable as we sometimes think.

01:24 Hugo’s thesis: when it comes to communication, people are not easily manipulated, but hard to manipulate.07:19 If people aren’t easily manipulated, then how does Hugo explain the success of Hitler, Pol Pot, and Trump?16:07 Aren’t people easily manipulated by leaders who share their political orientation?21:00 Do people really believe the crazy things they espouse?28:36 What is the connection between belief and behavior? 35:45 Sperber and Mercier’s “interactionist” theory of reason41:00 Twitter as a counterexample to the interactionist theory of reason48:18 Are people good at arguing?53:13 Rational rioters and the extraordinary heterogeneity of crowds