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Everybody wants "AI-first," but almost nobody can tell you what problem it's actually solving. Dave Kenyon sits down with David Thompson, CEO of OAHI, for an episode with a twist: David is Dave's own boss. They dig into what it really means to restructure a business around AI (not just bolt it onto existing products), why token-based pricing is about to catch a lot of buyers off guard, and why the $50 million AI spend story making the rounds should worry every executive chasing the hype without a use case.

About our guest
David Thompson is CEO of OAHI, a workforce management software company specialising in award interpretation, rostering, and payroll compliance. He has spent two decades at the intersection of workforce management, technology, and organisational change, and is currently leading OAHI's shift from traditional SaaS toward what he calls an "AI-first" operating model.

What we cover

• Why most businesses doing "AI-first" are really just adding AI on top, rather than restructuring around it
• The coming combination of robotics and AI in manufacturing and construction, and why it's closer than most executives think
• The problem with just handing staff a Claude or ChatGPT licence and saying "go for it"
• The real story behind a business that spent $50 million on AI tokens before asking whether it was worth it
• What vendors should be asked about AI pricing, especially as SaaS shifts from per-seat to per-token models
• Why mass AI-driven layoffs might be a short-term, margin-focused mistake rather than a strategic win
• A practical framework (borrowed from Gartner) for picking the right AI use cases and ignoring the rest
• Our Humans vs AI, Change Your Mind, and Prediction & Warning games
• David's prediction that workforce software is heading vertical, not horizontal, and his warning to leaders about rethinking their organisational structure now

Links

• David Thompson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dave-j-thompson/
• OAHI: https://www.oahi.io
• Dave Kenyon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davekenyon5/
• OAHI: https://www.linkedin.com/company/oahi

About OAHI
OAHI is a workforce management platform helping organisations manage time & attendance, payroll compliance, and award interpretation with greater accuracy and less manual overhead. Evolving Workforce brings on industry leaders to unpack the real challenges shaping HR, payroll, and workforce technology today. Subscribe so you don't miss the next episode.

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A sixteen-year-old casual calls in to say she can't work for four days because of exams. Whoever takes that call is making a long service leave decision they probably don't realise they're making. Dave Kenyon sits down with Toni Minovski, Industrial Relations Stakeholder Manager at NSW Industrial Relations, to unpack why long service leave is one of the most misunderstood and highest-risk areas of Australian workforce compliance — and why getting it right starts with the person answering the phone, not the software running the calculation.

About our guest
Toni Minovski is the Industrial Relations Stakeholder Manager for NSW Industrial Relations, where he works directly with businesses to translate industrial relations legislation into practical, compliant outcomes. He's a regular speaker at industry events including the Australian Payroll Association Summit, and long service leave is, in his own words, his favourite topic.

What we cover

• Why long service leave is Toni's "favourite topic" — and one of the most misunderstood parts of Australian workforce compliance
• The updated long service leave guidance NSW IR released on 1 March, and why they built it
• Why Australia's industrial relations landscape is considered the third most complex in the world
• The "pub test": persistent workplace myths (three warnings before termination, automatic overtime, long service leave after seven years) that aren't actually in the Fair Work Act
• The exam-leave phone call: a real scenario showing how long service leave decisions get made by people who don't know they're making them
• Our Humans vs AI game: where AI-powered long service leave calculators help, and why a human still has to check every calculation
• NSW IR's self-reporting channel, and why Toni says it's not a "big stick" approach
• Our Change Your Mind game: how responsibility for compliance has shifted across leadership, payroll, and systems
• Our Prediction & Warning game: Toni's call on long service leave harmonisation, and his warning about trusting AI blindly
• Toni's closing catch-cry on why thorough record keeping is the most important thing in compliance

Links

• Toni Minovski: https://www.linkedin.com/in/toni-minovski-54849230/
• NSW Industrial Relations: https://www.industrialrelations.nsw.gov.au/
• Dave Kenyon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davekenyon5/
• OAHI: https://www.linkedin.com/company/oahi

About OAHI
OAHI is a workforce management platform helping organisations manage time & attendance, payroll compliance, and award interpretation with greater accuracy and less manual overhead. Evolving Workforce brings on industry leaders to unpack the real challenges shaping HR, payroll, and workforce technology today. Subscribe so you don't miss the next episode.

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The real anxiety AI creates in the workplace isn't about job security, it's about personal value. Dave Kenyon sits down with Tim Malhi, Business Development Director at TMF Group, to unpack what it really takes to manage a workforce across 80+ countries, and why that psychological shift matters just as much as the operational one. 

The views expressed by Tim are purely his own and  are not related to or held by TMF.

About our guest
Tim Malhi is a Business Development Director at TMF Group, one of the world's leading providers of compliance and administrative services across more than 80 countries. He works with organisations expanding into Asia, giving him a front-row seat to how workforce complexity — and workforce anxiety — is shifting in real time.

What we cover
- Why compliance complexity is increasing, not easing, even as technology improves, and why Australia is one of the most complex markets in APAC
- TMF's "global services, local resources" model, and what organisations consistently underestimate when expanding into Australia
- The real anxiety AI is creating in teams, not just about job losses, but personal value
- Why the prompting and critical-thinking piece of AI now belongs to the individual, not the tool
- Whether AI is replacing jobs or just tasks, and why some organisations restructured on assumptions that haven't fully played out yet
- Why payroll, HR and workforce management teams are about to become more critical, not less, as employees start using AI to understand their own workplace policies
- Our Humans vs AI, Change Your Mind, and Prediction & Warning games
- Tim's take on where AI genuinely helps versus where the responsibility still has to sit with people

Links
- Tim Malhi: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timothy-malhi-1337373
- TMF Group: https://www.tmf-group.com
- Dave Kenyon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davekenyon5/
- OAHI: https://www.linkedin.com/company/oahi

About OAHI
OAHI is a workforce management platform helping organisations manage time & attendance, payroll compliance, and award interpretation with greater accuracy and less manual overhead. Evolving Workforce brings on industry leaders to unpack the real challenges shaping HR, payroll, and workforce technology today. Subscribe so you don't miss the next episode.

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Google brings you skeptics — AI brings you converters. And most businesses have no idea how AI decides who makes that shortlist. Dave Kenyon sits down with Joana Inch, Co-Founder and Head of Digital Strategy at Hat Media, to unpack how AI is reshaping the way businesses are found, chosen, and trusted — and why this affects every organisation listening, whether they've noticed it yet or not.

About our guest
Joana Inch is Co-Founder and Head of Digital Strategy at Hat Media, a B2B marketing agency working with tech and SaaS companies across Australia and globally. She's spent close to 20 years in marketing, starting as a media buyer straight out of university, and has built Hat Media into one of Australia's leading B2B strategy partners, picking up Stevie Awards for innovation along the way.

What we cover

• Why the internet has effectively split in two: the "human internet" and the "agent internet"
• The "Prove It Economy" — how AI actually decides which businesses to recommend, and why Reddit, LinkedIn, and YouTube carry more weight than your own website
• Why AI-referred leads skip almost all the research and convert faster than organic traffic ever did
• The mistake bigger organisations are making: assuming SEO success automatically carries over to AI visibility
• Why B2B buying groups have grown from a single champion to 4–10 stakeholders you now need to convince
• Our Humans vs AI game: what Jo keeps firmly human in her marketing operation, and what she's happy to hand to AI
• Our Change Your Mind game: what hybrid work has actually taught Jo, years on from going hybrid
• Our Prediction & Warning game: Gartner's forecast for how much of SEO's traffic AI will eat, and the warning for anyone who hasn't done an AEO audit yet
• Decoding the acronyms — SEO, AEO, and AIO — and what leaders should actually be measuring around AI adoption

Links

• Joana Inch: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joanainch
• Hat Media: https://www.hatmedia.com.au
• Dave Kenyon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davekenyon5/
• OAHI: https://www.linkedin.com/company/oahi

About OAHI
OAHI is a workforce management platform helping organisations manage time & attendance, payroll compliance, and award interpretation with greater accuracy and less manual overhead. Evolving Workforce brings on industry leaders to unpack the real challenges shaping HR, payroll, and workforce technology today. Subscribe so you don't miss the next episode.

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 Deepfake "CEOs" are joining Zoom calls and asking employees to transfer money. James Vickery, CEO of Benchmark 365, explains why this is happening and how leaders can stop it. In this episode, Dave Kenyon talks with James Vickery, CEO and founder of Benchmark 365 and author of Infinite Scale, about the real risks organisations face at the intersection of AI and cybersecurity. James explains why the attack surface has exploded as businesses adopt more software and AI tools, why data theft and extortion have replaced simple ransomware, and why humans remain the biggest vulnerability in any security system. They dig into real social engineering tactics. From fake friend requests on LinkedIn to AI-generated "CEOs" joining meetings uninvited and why every business needs a clear AI acceptable use policy. James also shares his take on which AI platforms are actually safe to build a business around, and what leaders should expect from AI and cybersecurity in the next two to five years. Evolving Workforce is OAHI's podcast for HR, payroll, and workforce technology leaders, unpacking the real challenges shaping how organisations manage their people. Work is changing and we ask the question - What still matters?

 Follow OAHI: https://www.linkedin.com/company/oahi/ 

OAHI: https://www.oahi.io 

Connect with James Vickery: https://au.linkedin.com/in/jvb365

Benchmark 365: http://www.benchmark365.com/

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When street smarts beat book smarts — and why "if it's not on my payroll, it's not my problem" no longer holds up. Dave Kenyon sits down with Joe Collins, Founder and CTO of Helixx/Cobot, a workforce technology consultancy specialising in multi-site operations across construction and industrial sectors. They dig into why compliance gets harder as businesses scale, the real risk in fragmented subcontractor data, and why Joe, a self-taught technologist, still won't let AI make the final call on his own team.

About our guest
Joe Collins is the founder of Helixx/Cobolt, a workforce technology consultancy helping Australian construction, manufacturing, and distribution businesses streamline operations through ERP strategy, automation, and system integration. He built his career without a traditional degree, learning the mechanics of business, compliance, and risk from the ground up, and now advises businesses on where "off the shelf" software falls short for complex, multi-site workforces.

What we cover

• Street smarts vs book smarts, and why Joe chose real-world experience over a degree
• The biggest shift in construction workforce management: compliance now runs onshore, offshore, and through every layer of subcontractors
• Why "if it's not on my payroll, it's not my problem" is a dead model
• Where payroll accuracy and award/EBA compliance actually breaks down
• Best-of-breed vs all-in-one systems — and why "one throat to choke" isn't always the right call
• What other industries can learn from how construction manages a workforce it can't always see
• Our Humans vs AI, Change Your Mind, and Prediction & Warning games
• Why Joe still rings a human consultant before trusting AI with payroll or construction expertise
• Joe's warning: sleepwalking into bad data quality before scaling into AI

Links

• Joe Collins: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-collins101
• Helixx: https://www.helixx.com.au/
• Helixx (Linkedin): https://www.linkedin.com/company/helixx-pty-ltd
• Cobolt (LinkedIn): https://www.linkedin.com/company/cobolt-ss
• Dave Kenyon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davekenyon5/
• OAHI: https://www.oahi.io/
• OAHI: https://www.linkedin.com/company/oahi

About OAHI
OAHI is a workforce management platform helping organisations manage time & attendance, payroll compliance, and award interpretation with greater accuracy and less manual overhead. Evolving Workforce brings on industry leaders to unpack the real challenges shaping HR, payroll, and workforce technology today. Subscribe so you don't miss the next episode.

Chapters (enter separately in Buzzsprout's Chapter Editor)

• 00:00 – Cold open: "if it's not on my payroll, it's not my problem — it is now"
• 01:00 – Dave introduces Joe Collins, founder of Cobolt
• 02:00 – Street smarts vs book smarts: Joe's path without a traditional degree
• 04:00 – Self-taught in programming, business, and automation
• 05:00 – The biggest shift in construction workforce management: compliance density
• 06:00 – Why construction workforce risk is higher than most industries realise
• 09:00 – Where payroll accuracy and award/EBA compliance actually breaks down
• 11:00 – Best-of-breed vs all-in-one: the "single source of failure" trade-off
• 14:00 – What other industries can learn from construction's layered subcontractor model
• 17:00 – Game: Humans vs AI — where the line sits in payroll and workforce data
• 20:00 – Keeping a human in the loop across time & attendance, rostering, and payroll
• 22:00 – Game: Change Your Mind — rethinking the Salesforce AI layoffs a year on
• 25:00 – Game: Prediction & Warning — AGI scepticism and the limits of context windows
• 28:00 – Prediction: build-your-own vs best-in-breed workforce tech, five years out
• 30:00 – Warning: data sanitisation is the layer nobody can skip
• 33:00 – Final advice: vet your vendors, ask the hard questions
• 35:00 – Closing thoughts and wrap-up

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Dave Kenyon sits down with Stacey Kavanagh, Managing Director and Co-Founder of KJM Consulting, to unpack why organisations with great technology still struggle with governance, compliance, and accountability gaps. They dig into role drift, shadow AI in payroll, and where the line sits between what AI should handle and what stays firmly in human hands.

About our guest
Stacey Kavanagh is Managing Director and Co-Founder of KJM Consulting, an Australian-based technology advisory firm helping organisations get more out of their workforce systems across time & attendance, payroll, and HR. She's spent years spotting exactly where things break down as organisations scale, and is also a regular contributor to Global Payroll Magazine.

What we cover

• Why "good" governance doesn't mean perfect — it means knowing how to handle problems when they arise
• The dreaded "Phase Two" and why technology rollouts stall after go-live
• Role drift: the biggest disconnect between what leaders think is happening and what's actually happening
• Who owns workforce outcomes once AI enters the picture
• Why AI + award/EBA interpretation is a risky combination
• Shadow AI — the unsanctioned tools quietly putting sensitive payroll data at risk
• Our Humans vs AI, Change Your Mind, and Prediction & Warning games
• Stacey's take on robots joining the workforce — and the warning that comes with it

Links

• Stacey Kavanagh: https://au.linkedin.com/in/stacey-kavanagh-166b00112
• KJM Consulting: https://kjmconsulting.com.au/
• Dave Kenyon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davekenyon5/
• OAHI: https://www.linkedin.com/company/oahi

About OAHI
OAHI is a workforce management platform helping organisations manage time & attendance, payroll compliance, and award interpretation with greater accuracy and less manual overhead. Evolving Workforce brings on industry leaders to unpack the real challenges shaping HR, payroll, and workforce technology today. Subscribe so you don't miss the next episode.

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Why do so many AI strategies fall apart the moment they meet a real team?

In this episode of Evolving Workforce, Dave sits down with Dirk J Primus, Associate Professor at UNSW's Australian Graduate School of Management, where he researches strategy, innovation and technology adoption. Dirk spends his time inside organisations watching where AI strategy actually breaks down, and most of what he sees comes straight from senior leaders in his MBA classes.

This conversation covers a lot of ground: why AI adoption looks nothing alike from one team to the next inside the same organisation, the rise of "AI theatre" (where AI gets talked about a lot more than it gets used properly), and Dirk's cake analogy for how organisations are layered and why that matters for anyone rolling out AI across silos.

Dirk also plays two quick rounds with Dave: Humans vs AI, on what leaders should never hand over to a machine, and Change Your Mind, on what he's rethought recently about preparing a workforce for AI.

The line that sums up the whole episode: protect your brain. AI can do the grunt work. The higher order thinking still has to be yours.

Chapters

00:00 – Introduction to Dirk J Primus and today's topic
 01:00 – What's actually changing as organisations adopt AI
 03:00 – Which industries are more resistant to AI adoption
 04:00 – Medicine as an example of confident, low-resistance adoption
 06:00 – The cake analogy: layers, silos and organisational architecture
 10:00 – Why organisations are still siloed on different AI tools
 11:00 – Why most AI strategies fail once they hit real teams
 12:30 – AI theatre, and the gold rush of shortcut-sellers
 17:00 – Dirk's background and courses at UNSW AGSM
 19:00 – Game: Humans vs AI, what leaders should never outsource
 22:30 – Game: Change Your Mind, what Dirk has rethought recently
 25:00 – Manipulation, AI companionship, and where the ethical line sits
 29:30 – The environmental cost of AI, data centres and responsible use
 32:30 – Prediction: the "Apple route" vs the prompt-everything route
 36:00 – Warning: fear-mongering, shortcuts and protecting your brain
 38:00 – Closing thoughts and what's next

Links

Connect with Dirk J Primus: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dirk-j-primus-b79a6710/

Connect with Evolving Workforce host Dave Kenyon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davekenyon5/

Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/033OH8uj9vTjmlkscl692l?si=a6a9050ff4964b5b

Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@EvolvingWorkforce

More on OAHI: https://www.oahi.io/

Evolving Workforce is brought to you by OAHI, the workforce management platform helping organisations across Australia, New Zealand and Asia Pacific get rostering, time and attendance, and payroll compliance right, without the manual guesswork. If award interpretation, BOOT compliance or shift scheduling is still eating up your week, learn more at https://www.oahi.io/

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Adam Cogan, founder of SSW and one of Australia's most recognised voices in applied AI, joins Evolving Workforce to unpack how AI is changing not just how work gets done, but who makes the decisions inside organisations.

Adam shares why he thinks every company needs a "VP of AI" (or Chief AI Officer), how SSW uses Claude Skills and Claude Code to eliminate repetitive work, what "AI slop" actually is and how to avoid producing it, and the wild story of "OpenClaw", an AI agent, given full access to someone's computer. He also breaks down AGI in plain terms and shares a real example of a business owner who used Claude to build an entire caravan-hire business. Website, marketing campaign in minutes.

This is a practical, no-hype conversation for business leaders trying to work out where AI is genuinely adding value in their workforce, and where it's just noise.

00:00 Introduction: Adam Cogan, founder of SSW
 01:00 From writing code to running AI-powered software teams
 02:30 Where AI is genuinely adding value vs. where it's just hype
 05:00 Real example: fixing a spreadsheet with a single Claude prompt
 06:00 What are Claude Skills and Claude Code, explained simply
 09:00 What "AI slop" is and how to avoid sending it
 11:30 How AI is changing who makes decisions in a business
 13:00 The OpenClaw story: an AI agent with full computer access
 18:00 How SSW trains every employee to use AI from day one
 20:00 Why every company needs a VP of AI (or Chief AI Officer)
 21:30 Game: Humans vs AI:  Where humans still matter most
 23:00 Game: Change Your Mind: Anthropic's Mythos and Fable models
 26:00 What AGI actually means, and are we close?
 28:30 Game: Prediction: AI building a business in 10 minutes
 32:00 Game: The Warning: What leaders need to watch for
 34:00 Final thought: is AI doing the right work, not just doing work right

Evolving Workforce is a podcast from OAHI, exploring how AI and technology are reshaping how organisations lead, manage, and pay their people. Real conversations with the strategists, technologists, and workforce leaders on the front line of this shift.

🔗 Listen and subscribe: [podcast link]
 🔗 Follow OAHI: https://www.linkedin.com/company/oahi/
🔗 OAHI: https://www.oahi.io
🔗 Adam Cogan / SSW:https://www.ssw.com.au/

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