Kari talks with Joe Loya, a man who was convicted of robbing 30 banks and wrote about his time in prison and his life in the memoir, The Man Who Outgrew His Prison Cell. Joe and Kari explore the intersections of language, religion, maleness and violence and talk about how our ideas of hierarchy and gender impact the way we use and justify violence. Joe's unique history and educational background make him a compelling storyteller. Come listen to this fascinating conversation.

Order Joe's book here https://www.joeloya.ltd/

Joe's podcast, The Bank Robber Diaries, can be found here https://play.acast.com/s/thescore

Kari's website www.kariodriscollwriter.com

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