In this week's roundup, we dive deep into the evolving dynamics between L1s and applications, exploring whether apps are truly "parasitic" to chains like Solana or if this represents a natural evolution of value capture in crypto. The conversation covers Abstract Chain's innovative approach to creator-focused L2s, Rari's strategic stack upgrades, and the latest developments in ZK tech including real-time Ethereum proving. Along the way, we challenge traditional assumptions about protocol value capture and discuss why vertical integration might be the key to crypto's consumer adoption. Enjoy!

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Follow Jill: https://x.com/jillrgunter

Follow Nick: https://x.com/nickwh8te

Follow Uma: https://x.com/pumatheuma

Follow Mike: https://x.com/MikeIppolito_

Follow Expansion: https://x.com/ExpansionPod_

Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ExpansionPod

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Get top market insights and the latest in crypto news. Subscribe to Blockworks Daily Newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/

--

Timestamps:

(00:00) Introduction

(03:24) Is Crypto Cool Again?

(07:21) Abstract Chain Launch

(22:14) DEX Structural Advantage

(24:11) Are Apps Parasitic to Solana?

(36:18) Tech Demand Paradox

(40:59) Rollup Platform Strategy

(49:27) Rari's Upgrade

(53:11) State of ZK

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Disclaimer

Expansion was kickstarted by a grant from the Celestia Foundation.

Nothing said on Expansion is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Rex, Jon, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.

This week's roundup Trump token phenomenon and its implications for blockchain infrastructure, including analysis of Solana's performance under stress and its competition with Ethereum's rollup ecosystem. We then explore Ethereum Foundation's cultural challenges and potential reforms, including the possibility of a second foundation. To close our we examine new Layer 1 developments emerging from the Solana ecosystem and debate the future of blockchain architecture.

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Follow Jill: https://x.com/jillrgunter

Follow Nick: https://x.com/nickwh8te

Follow Uma: https://x.com/pumatheuma

Follow Mike: https://x.com/MikeIppolito_

Follow Expansion: https://x.com/ExpansionPod_

Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ExpansionPod

Subscribe on Apple: http://apple.co/4bGKYYM

Subscribe on Spotify: http://spoti.fi/3Vaubq1

Get top market insights and the latest in crypto news. Subscribe to Blockworks Daily Newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/

--

Timestamps:

(00:00) Introduction

(02:57) Trump & Melania Token Launch

(13:03) Solana's Performance

(23:14) How People Onboard in Crypto

(30:30) Native Rollups

(45:47) Ethereum's Privatization

(57:16) Ethereum's Leadership

(01:06:27) Konstantin's Ethereum Foundation

(01:12:23) Fire Dancer Forks

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Disclaimer

Expansion was kickstarted by a grant from the Celestia Foundation.

Nothing said on Expansion is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Rex, Jon, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.

In today's episode Morpho CEO Paul Frambot breaks down their partnership with Coinbase that enables Bitcoin-backed loans through DeFi infrastructure. The conversation explores how Morpho's modular architecture allows seamless integration for major institutions while maintaining transparency and risk controls. Paul discusses Morpho's evolution from focusing purely on institutional clients to balancing both retail and B2B strategies. To close Mike and Paul discuss their thoughts on regulation, memecoins, and the challenging balance between innovation and user protection in DeFi.

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Follow Paul: https://x.com/PaulFrambot

Follow Mike: https://x.com/MikeIppolito_

Follow Expansion: https://x.com/ExpansionPod_

Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ExpansionPod

Subscribe on Apple: http://apple.co/4bGKYYM

Subscribe on Spotify: http://spoti.fi/3Vaubq1

Get top market insights and the latest in crypto news. Subscribe to Blockworks Daily Newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/

--

Timestamps:

(00:00) Introduction

(02:08) US Crypto Strategic Reserve

(15:26) Tether's USDT Zero

(23:28) USDC vs USDT

(30:22) Ink vs Base Interop

(34:08) App Chains vs Gen Purpose

(38:42) Do Bitcoiners Want L2s?

(50:12) Solana's Market Share

(54:29) Coinbase USDC Loans on BTC

(59:58) Unwarranted Bankless Fire

(01:03:57) Crypto's Funding Mechanisms

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Disclaimer

Expansion was kickstarted by a grant from the Celestia Foundation.

Nothing said on Expansion is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Rex, Jon, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.

In this episode, Jill Gunter and Zon join us to dive into US President Elect Trump's potential US crypto strategic reserve and what it means for US-launched tokens. We then shift gears to examine USDT0's launch with LayerZero, exploring how it could transform cross-chain liquidity and challenge USDC's dominance. We also unpack the complex dynamics between Base and Ink L2s, questioning whether interoperability between major exchange L2s makes sense. We wrap up with a critical look at Echo's success and the revival of ICO mechanisms.

- -

Follow Jill: https://x.com/jillrgunter

Follow Zon: https://x.com/ItsAlwaysZonny

Follow Mike: https://x.com/MikeIppolito_

Follow Expansion: https://x.com/ExpansionPod_

Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ExpansionPod

Subscribe on Apple: http://apple.co/4bGKYYM

Subscribe on Spotify: http://spoti.fi/3Vaubq1

Get top market insights and the latest in crypto news. Subscribe to Blockworks Daily Newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/

--

Timestamps:

(00:00) Introduction

(02:08) US Crypto Strategic Reserve

(15:26) Tether's USDT Zero

(23:28) USDC vs USDT

(30:22) Ink vs Base Interop

(34:08) App Chains vs Gen Purpose

(38:42) Do Bitcoiners Want L2s?

(50:12) Solana's Market Share

(54:29) Coinbase USDC Loans on BTC

(59:58) Unwarranted Bankless Fire

(01:03:57) Crypto's Funding Mechanisms

- -

Disclaimer

Expansion was kickstarted by a grant from the Celestia Foundation.

Nothing said on Expansion is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Rex, Jon, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.

In this episode, we explore the evolving landscape of Bitcoin L2s and debate the fundamental question of crypto's use case. We dive into the technical and cultural challenges facing Bitcoin L2s, examine how different L2 ecosystems might develop unique characteristics, and unpack a pivotal ideological divide between those who see blockchain as primarily asset ledgers versus those who envision unlimited innovation potential. We close out by discussing continued blockchain experimentation and the vision of a verifiable internet. Thanks for tuning in!

- -

Follow Nick: https://x.com/nickwh8te

Follow Mike: https://x.com/MikeIppolito_

Follow Expansion: https://x.com/ExpansionPod_

Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@expansionpod

Subscribe on Apple: http://apple.co/4bGKYYM

Subscribe on Spotify: http://spoti.fi/3Vaubq1

Get top market insights and the latest in crypto news. Subscribe to Blockworks Daily Newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/

--

Timestamps:

(00:00) Introduction

(01:48) Bitcoin L2 Demand?

(20:31) Absolute vs Relative Security

(31:03) Based Rollups on Celestia

(43:11) Lazy Chains & Community Chains

(48:43) Usecase of Blockspace

- -

Disclaimer

Expansion was kickstarted by a grant from the Celestia Foundation.

Nothing said on Expansion is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Rex, Jon, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.

In this episode, Mike and Nick discuss three major trends they expect to shape crypto in 2025: the inevitable scaling challenges facing monolithic L1s like Solana and Ethereum, the expansion of rehypothecation across DeFi protocols and bridges, and massive growth in stablecoin adoption driven by regulatory tailwinds and institutional issuers. They explore technical constraints around L1 scaling, analyze the business dynamics pushing protocols toward rehypothecation, and examine why stablecoin market cap could exceed $450B. The conversation also covers complementary predictions around ZK proofs, TEEs, and the American crypto renaissance. Thanks for tuning in and happy holidays!

- -

Follow Nick: https://x.com/nickwh8te

Follow Mike: https://x.com/MikeIppolito_

Follow Expansion: https://x.com/ExpansionPod_

Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@expansionpod

Subscribe on Apple: http://apple.co/4bGKYYM

Subscribe on Spotify: http://spoti.fi/3Vaubq1

Get top market insights and the latest in crypto news. Subscribe to Blockworks Daily Newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/

--

Timestamps:

(00:00) Introduction

(01:48) Solana & Eth Scale Fails

(07:25) American Crypto Renaissance

(11:28) Institutions Launching Chains

(19:58) Stablecoin Marketcap Exceeds $450B

(24:30) 2025 is zk Year

(29:24) TEE Growth

(39:04) Fee Switches, Rehypotheticating Assets

(45:23) Celestia 20mbps Throughput

(50:26) AI & Crypto Bubble

(1:00:23) New Media Models

- -

Disclaimer

Expansion was kickstarted by a grant from the Celestia Foundation.

Nothing said on Expansion is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Rex, Jon, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.

In this episode, Mippo discusses the recent discussion on Polygon bridge assets, the potential for a new business model in DeFi, the future of RWAs, and the waning strength of ETHs “Store of Value” narrative. Thanks for tuning in!

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Resources

Marc Zeller - “Operation Polygon(e): https://x.com/lemiscate/status/1868599491869520361

Sandeep’s Thoughts: https://x.com/sandeepnailwal/status/1869153510756909475

PaperImperium’s Post: https://x.com/ImperiumPaper/status/1869385793229459867

Steakhouse Financial’s Thoughts on the Polygon Bridge Drama: https://x.com/SteakhouseFi/status/1869506052242407645

RWA: Tokenized Treasuries: https://app.rwa.xyz/treasuries

Gwart’s Post: https://x.com/GwartyGwart/status/1870500616742822138

—--

Follow Mike: https://x.com/MikeIppolito_

Subscribe on YouTube: https://bit.ly/3R1D1D9

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Join the Bell Curve Telegram group: https://t.me/+nzyxAvQ0Xxc3YTEx

—--

TIMESTAMPS

(00:00) Intro

(00:35) New Business Models in DeFi

(18:10) The Future of RWAs

(27:48) ETHs Store of Value Narrative

—--

Disclaimer: Nothing said on Bell Curve is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Mike, Jason, Michael, Vance and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.

In this episode, we dive deep into Skip Protocol's acquisition by the Cosmos Hub and what it means for the future of ecosystem. Barry and Zaki join to discuss the evolution of Cosmos, the challenges of blockchain standardization, and Skip's vision for unifying the ecosystem. They then discuss the implications of IBC Eureka, the launch of Commonware, and broader industry trends around execution environments and settlement layers. Thanks for tuning in!

- -

Follow Zaki: https://x.com/zmanian 

Follow Barry: https://x.com/BPIV400 

Follow Nick: https://x.com/nickwh8te

Follow Mike: https://x.com/MikeIppolito_

Follow Expansion: https://x.com/ExpansionPod_

Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@expansionpod

Subscribe on Apple: http://apple.co/4bGKYYM

Subscribe on Spotify: http://spoti.fi/3Vaubq1

Get top market insights and the latest in crypto news. Subscribe to Blockworks Daily Newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/

--

Timestamps:

(00:00) Introduction

(01:17) Skip Protocol Acquired by Cosmos Hub

(06:42) Cosmos Hub Origin Story

(12:01) Role of Cosmos Hub & Skip

(29:22) Goals of Cosmos Hub

(34:44) Avalanche vs Cosmos

(44:06) Impact of IBC Eureka

(50:08) Movement & VM Diversity

(56:55) Network Effects of Execution vs Settlement

- -

Disclaimer

Expansion was kickstarted by a grant from the Celestia Foundation.

Nothing said on Expansion is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Rex, Jon, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.

In this episode, we dive deep into the architecture and philosophy behind Eclipse with CTO Ben Lipschitz and Head of Strategy Terry. The conversation explores why applications need control over their own sequencing, challenging the traditional model where validators capture all the value. Learn about Eclipse's unique position bridging Ethereum and Solana ecosystems, their approach to local fee markets, and why the future of L2s may depend more on user/liquidity networks than settlement assurances. Thanks for tuning in!

- -

Follow Terry: https://x.com/0xtaetaehoho

Follow Ben: https://x.com/convoluted_code

Follow Nick: https://x.com/nickwh8te

Follow Mike: https://x.com/MikeIppolito_

Follow Expansion: https://x.com/ExpansionPod_

Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@expansionpod

Subscribe on Apple: http://apple.co/4bGKYYM

Subscribe on Spotify: http://spoti.fi/3Vaubq1

Get top market insights and the latest in crypto news. Subscribe to Blockworks Daily Newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/

--

Timestamps:

(00:00) Introduction

(03:51) Network Effects of Settlement vs Execution

(18:12) Who has Leverage?

(25:03) Application Specific Sequencing

(38:55) L1 or L2 MEV Split

(49:06) How do L1s Impact L2s

(54:39) Selecting an L1

- -

Disclaimer

Expansion was kickstarted by a grant from the Celestia Foundation.

Nothing said on Expansion is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Rex, Jon, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.

In this episode, we dive into deep into the emerging landscape of Bitcoin L2s as it crosses $100k. With Uma Roy of Succint and Jill Gunter of Espress Systems joining us, we explore ZK's impact on crypto's scaling future. To close out we debate Ethereum's strategic direction and the complex relationship between L1s and L2s as Solana continues gaining adoption. Thanks for tuning in!

- -

Follow Uma:https://x.com/pumatheuma

Follow Jill: https://x.com/jillrgunter

Follow Nick: https://x.com/nickwh8te

Follow Mike: https://x.com/MikeIppolito_

Follow Expansion: https://x.com/ExpansionPod_

Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@expansionpod

Subscribe on Apple: http://apple.co/4bGKYYM

Subscribe on Spotify: http://spoti.fi/3Vaubq1

Get top market insights and the latest in crypto news. Subscribe to Blockworks Daily Newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/

--

Timestamps:

(00:00) Introduction

(01:48) $100k Bitcoin Sentiment

(05:55) Bitcoin L2 Horizon

(10:01) Modularity in Bitcoin

(15:48) Over Indexing Decentralization

(28:59) Succient Decentralized Prover Network

(43:43) Competing with Intents Model

(48:13) State of Ethereum

- -

Disclaimer

Expansion was kickstarted by a grant from the Celestia Foundation.

Nothing said on Expansion is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Rex, Jon, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.

(00:00) Introduction

(01:48) $100k Bitcoin Sentiment

(05:55) Bitcoin L2 Horizon

(10:01) Modularity in Bitcoin

(15:48) Over Indexing Decentralization

(28:59) Succient Decentralized Prover Network

(43:43) Competing with Intents Model

(48:13) State of Ethereum