Maryam: Hey guys! Welcome back to the Extra Credit podcast. I’m Maryam, your host. If this is your first time tuning in to our podcast, let me give you a quick rundown.

Every month, we talk to students, graduates, professors and people from academia about their stories, their insights, and their thoughts about the beauty and challenges of studying abroad.

Today, we have a special guest, Monica Millares. She’s a trailblazer for women working (and thriving) in the financial technology market — or “fintech” for short. If you’re wondering what that is, think of online banking, e-wallets, virtual credit cards and other kinds of payment you can make that don't require you being face to face with an actual person.

With a degree in engineering and management of information systems, she has spent many years growing her career around the world, from her home country in Mexico to the UK and all the way to Asia. Seven years ago, Monica moved to Malaysia to spearhead the launch of BigPay, which is one of the largest digital banks in South-East Asia today. 

But before all of that, Monica here was just another ambitious international student like you and I. She travelled to the UK to pursue a Master’s degree in Management of Information Systems at the London School of Economics. 

Monica, welcome! So glad to have you join us today. 

Monica: Thank you, Maryam. The pleasure is all mine. Thank you.

Maryam: Alright. I just want to let you know that I think your journey is really inspiring, seeing how far you’ve worked your way up to becoming a major industry leader after you graduated. We know that it takes a lot of grit and hard work to succeed in this field.

For many of us, the experiences and skills we’ve gained during our student days often shape how we approach the real world. So, let’s go back to the beginning, alright, I’ll dive right into the questions, okay?

Growing up, what was your childhood like? What was it that sparked your interest in engineering?

Monica: Well, I had a good childhood. But at the same time, I was a nerd. I’ve always been a nerd. Since I was in kindergarten, I was the best in the class. So, my childhood was a lot about studying as well. I always got a diploma for “Best in Class” at the end of the year, from kindergarten all the way to middle school, high school, university, and then my master’s. 

So, that’s part of who I am and I guess, because I was at the top of the class many, many times, when it came to the moment to decide what to study, engineering was kind of one of the things that people suggested to me. It’s not that I wanted to, but they were like, “Oh, you should study engineering because you’re good at maths, because you have good grades.” And that’s how I ended up doing it. 

Maryam: That’s so great to hear but, yeah, sometimes, we do things because people tell us that that’s what’s good for us. But I’m glad that in your case, it’s something that you actually excelled in, so it became the right career path for you.

So, back in 2002, you used to study Industrial Engineering at a local university in Mexico, but what made you decide to do a master’s degree in Management of Information Systems in the UK?

Monica: Yeah, I guess, it was two things. One, my mother. She always said, “Hey, you have to continue your studies and, if possible, study abroad.” So, that was one thing, you know, like the push from parents.

Then, the other one was — my first job was as an intern in the product team in a development bank. And well, my parents didn’t pay for my master’s. I paid for it. So, basically, what I did — it’s like, I had to get a scholarship, and the easiest way to get a scholarship back then was to study a tech-related master’s. At the end, I did not get a scholarship, but instead, I got a loan to go abroad. But same, I got it because it was a very technical field that I was getting into. Just practical.

Maryam: Well, your mom wanted you to study abroad, but was it your choice to study in the UK or were there other options and other countries?

Monica: Well, I looked into the US and the UK and Europe, but my mom passed away when I was way younger. So, it was not like she forced me to, right. She was not around. It was 100% my choice to go. 

Maryam: As I know it, Management of Information Systems blends technical, scientific and business knowledge together. So, can you tell us a bit more about what sort of coursework you were doing? And which did you enjoy the most?

Monica: Yeah, so, when I studied engineering, we had coding classes, right. And I enjoyed them. But then when I started working, I used to work a lot with the tech team within the bank, so my idea of studying my master’s was like, oh, I wanted to do the systems architecture in a company and be super technical. And when I got to LSE — basically, LSE was very social science-based as well, at least back then. So, the programme that I studied ended up being not technical. It was called Analysis Design and Management, right, so it was the social aspect of technology. 

E.g. What happens when you introduce new tech to a company? You’re going to have resistance. How do you design it?

Like, it was much more the human side, if you want, of technology that I ended up studying, which was fascinating as well. 

Maryam: So, was there any sort of challenging coursework you had to do knowing that it’s more social science-geared rather than something that’s more technical?

Monica: Yeah, like I said, it was not technical. With technical, I mean, it was not me learning how to code, how to build a software, right. It was technical in the sense that we were talking about IT. So, in that sense, it was technical, but it was not like hands-on writing software as such. 

LSE is a very difficult uni, so every course was difficult. 

Maryam: I can imagine that. So, you know, being in London is really exciting, but like anyone going anywhere new, the first few days and weeks can be super tough. What was it like for you when you first got to LSE? And what were some of the biggest challenges you faced as an international student while you were abroad in the UK?

Monica: That’s a beautiful question. I think, at the beginning, it was super exciting. I was just extremely excited, so everything was like “Wow” and I got to London where I was staying. I was like, “Oh, it looks like Harry Potter!”

So, I was extremely excited to be there, so I always saw the good things. Some of the challenging things at the very beginning was the weather. It gets very cold — especially, you know, in Malaysia, we’re used to the sun. Mexico is not as hot as Malaysia, but still. So, the weather was a big deal. 

Then, of course, I spoke English, but my native language is Spanish, and when I got there, I couldn’t understand a thing. It’s because the accent was different. I was used to American English instead of British English, so I couldn’t understand it, really. And I was like, “Oh my God, this is so hard.”

So, English was a barrier and then, I think the social part was not because the great majority of people in the class were international. So, this is a uni where the great majority of people are international. So, it’s formed where you have international friends all in the same boat. However, when I finished my master’s, 99% of my friends left and that’s when it was really, really, really hard. Because then I was in London on my own with no friends and it was rainy and gloomy and dark, and I was like, “Waaah, I don’t like it.”

So, I went through what I call a quarter-life crisis and it was just because I didn’t have friends. 

Maryam: Aww, that’s okay. Can you tell us a bit more about that quarter-life crisis? How did you cope with it, especially when your friends left? How were you able to rise above that? Especially being by yourself.

Monica: Yeah. That was tough. I used to cry. I’m a crier. I don’t cry as much as I used to anymore, but I used to cry a ton. Basically, I wanted to come back home and my dad would tell me, “Monica, you don’t realise how lucky you are. So many people would love to be in your place.” 

So, I have this saying: Sometimes, you just have to push through, right. 

So, it’s not that I coped. I just have a large tolerance to pain, which is good and bad. But then, eventually, what I did was — I met a life coach. I went to one of his events. It was a dating coach. It was not just a life coach. It was a dating coach. I met him and went to a Saturday two-hour workshop and since then, I was like, “Oh my God, this is so good.” And then I started getting into life-coaching and “mindset” and basically managing my emotions, and that’s what really helped me. But before that, I struggled a lot. 

Maryam: I’m glad that you were able to overcome it and I’m glad that those events worked out for you. Were there other students in your batch at LSE who were also struggling with the same things as you did?

And also, I’m just curious, what was the student population like? 

Were there a lot of women or female students who were also going through the same thing as you, especially when they’re, you know, studying STEM?

Monica: Yeah, in my programme, we were, like, 5% women, but within the cohort of everyone else coming to LSE that year, there were, like, tons of women and such. So, I could say, my female friends were from the other programmes rather than from my own. Because we weren’t just like four, five, right, and I think most of us from “not cold weather” countries struggled a ton with the darkness and the weather. 

I have a friend, Sarah. I remember we used to live in the same residency and then, at the end of October or the beginning of November — I don’t remember — on a Sunday, it’s the change of the clock. So, basically, it’s, like, you need to move the clock one hour, right? So it’s like daylight savings and when that happened, I remember she called me and she was like, “Monica, what’s going on? It’s, like, 5pm and it’s already dark.”

And that was the beginning of winter. It was kind of like, oh my God. And all of us were not used to that.

Maryam: Yeah, I know, I’ve been through that as well, especially the change in weather. 

In my case, as someone from Malaysia, when I used to study in the UK as well, the four seasons were something I had to familiarise or acclimatise with, right?

So, just sort of like, circling back to you and your friend, Sarah and how women only made up 5% of your class, right?

We know that, nowadays, I’ve seen your other podcasts and also, you know, the other blog posts you used to write, we know that you often champion diverse voices in your field, but women represent less than a third of the global STEM workforce and in the UK alone, only 35% of STEM students in higher education are women. 

So, what was it like pursuing a STEM degree that’s usually male-dominated? 

I’m sure that was a different experience, right?

Monica: Yeah, I noticed it. I’m saying yeah, all the time. So, when I studied Engineering in Mexico, (it was the) same. We were five women. They were, like, all men and I think that was the first time that I struggled. But at the same time, I didn’t, because my family, like, my cousins were all men except my other cousin and I. So it was, like, many men and two women. And I used to play football and they were, like, “Oh, don’t be a girl. Don’t cry.”

I was somehow used to hanging out with boys, let’s say. So, when I started uni, I just became best friends with the guys and I was like, “Oh, I’m one of the guys. I’m one of the guys.” Like, that’s when I studied Engineering. 

When I moved to the UK, I didn’t really feel it, like, (while) studying my programme because I was used to it and everybody’s super friendly. When I felt it was when I joined the workforce and I remember the kind of, uh, vivid images I still have. It’s like me getting into the office in a very nice big building in Canary Wharf, getting into the lift and then, like, if you look at me in real life, I’m petite-sized. So, I’m not that tall. I’m petite-sized and slim. So, I got into the lift and I got to be surrounded by all these men in suits, British, you know, like, white. They looked different to me and I was like, oh my God, I’m the only girl here. That’s when I started noticing it, like, in the workplace, rather than in my degree. 

Maryam: But…did you face any challenges in the workforce when you’re being surrounded by mostly men? Especially since they’re local?

Monica: Yeah. I think I didn’t have confidence. I always used to think, “slash”, say, that people treated me differently because I was a Mexican woman in the UK. That was just in my mind probably — partially yes, partially no. I don’t really know. 

But yeah, I didn’t have much confidence back then. So, the struggles, they were always inner struggles rather than something specific happening. What I do remember, as in, if something specific happened, was at some point, I had a manager who gave me feedback and he told me, “Hey, you should be more of a bulldog” and I was like, “What is that supposed to mean?” 

And then if I already had, like, “so and so” confidence, that didn’t sit that well, right. Because I was like, “Well, I’m not a bulldog but what do you mean?”

And then it’s like — that was tough. 

Maryam: I can imagine that. So how did you manage to prove yourself in that sort of environment? 

Monica: That's a brilliant question. So, I think it’s a combination of three to four things. I am a hard worker. That’s it. I’m a hard worker. All the time, since I was a kid, right. So, that’s number one.

Number two, like I said, since I was a kid, I was a nerd. So I liked studying. When I moved from studying to work, what that meant is, I liked being prepared, I liked being the best in the class, right. So, that behaviour kind of, like, continues at work.

So, I always wanted to do, like, the best possible work ever. And then, given the somewhat lack of confidence, it was like uh, “Oh no, I need to do better.” Right, and then somehow the reality (is) that I think there’s some conscious biases that I could perceive or didn’t. It’s like, as a Mexican woman with a bubbly personality in a male, British-dominated environment, I just felt like I had to give the extra mile. Always. 

And that’s how I ended up proving myself. I worked a lot and I always gave the extra mile, and the quality of my work was really, really high. So, what happened, it’s like, when I was in school, I could always get a diploma at the end of the year. When I joined Visa, when I joined Barclays, if it’s performance reviews, back then, they also had, like, award programmes. At the end of the review cycle, I could get an award from the Visa programme and I could get an award from the Barclays programme just like I did in uni because that’s what I was programmed to be somehow.

Maryam: That’s so impressive! You really did prove them wrong, and you’ve basically worked your way up to a leadership role. 

Do you think that your experience at LSE had helped you get to that point in any way? 

And if so, how did it help you? 

Monica: Yes, I think it’s three things or two. In LSE, well, it’s a very prestigious university, right? So, I graduated with a Distinction. So, as much as I say that I didn’t have confidence, when it comes to academics and smarts, that’s where I have the most confidence, while being humble. So, what LSE did, by me graduating from this really good university and graduating with a Distinction, that gave me a super boost of confidence. 

Because I was like, oh, I am good at that. It was not like, oh, I got diplomas in Mexico. It was more of uh, oh, I got a Distinction in LSE.

And that helped (with) my confidence a ton. So, the first few years of my career, that, you know, that was part of me, I was like, yeah, I’m very proud that I graduated with a Distinction from LSE as a Mexican woman. So, that really helped a lot. And then, the other one is — one of the things I liked about LSE is that they used to have, like, open classes. And then, in the open class or lectures, they got to bring politicians, they got to bring the Prime Minister of so and so, the Prime Minister and then, it’s like, I could go to these rooms and I was like, “Oh my God.”

I don’t remember their nationalities now but it’s like, oh, there’s the Prime Minister of so and so just sitting a few rows in front of me. I’m like, “That is so cool.” And I’d get the chance to, not meet the Queen, like shaking hands, no, that didn’t happen, but I was in the same room as the Queen of England. And I was like, “Oh my God.”

So, all those experiences helped me build the — not only confidence — but this mindset of “I want to be like them. I could be like them.” These are, like, you know, successful people. They (LSE) put them in front of us because they are like role models and that could be us one day. So, I’m very ambitious as well.

I don't know where I got that from. I’m ambitious and I’m a dreamer. I’m both and I’m a hard worker. So, the mix of all those experiences — it’s like they just pushed me to be like, “Oh yeah, that’s possible.” And that’s how it influenced me.

Maryam: Right on. 

So you said that, you know, studying in LSE allowed you to meet really influential people from around the world. 

Did you get to actually, you know, speak to them or ask them for advice?

Monica: No, it was just like — they were on stage. They were being interviewed by someone, but sometimes, just like, it’s like when you go to a concert, right. You can hear the music in your house all the time. You can go to the movies. But when you go to a concert and you have your favourite artist in front of you, there’s something about the presence of that person in front of you that you’re like, “Oh my God, this is so inspiring.”

So, even though I didn’t get to speak with them one on one, just being in front of them was wow. Many years after, I loved going to conferences. You know, it’s that feeling of, “Oh, I’m meeting so and so in person.” It’s a, I don’t know, it’s a geeky thing as well. But yeah, I love meeting, like, not my heroes but the people I admire in person. It makes a difference.

Maryam: If you could name one of those public figures you met that, you know, influenced you the most, like, the ones that you met at LSE, the most memorable in-person experience, which one would it be?

Monica: The Queen. Obviously. 

Maryam: Tell us a bit more about that.

Monica: It was the opening of the new building in LSE. So, basically, they invited certain students to be part of the ceremony. It was a big deal, right. I mean, basically, uh, it influences from the moment of — hey, you’ve been invited to this ceremony and you’re like, “Oh my God, what do I, you know, what are the protocols?” Because it’s like, you cannot wear this, you cannot do this, like, shake hands with the other. I was not going to meet her and shake hands but you know, they tell you all these protocols. So, just like, from the moment of saying, “Oh, I’m going to be in the same room as the Queen and I’m going to see her walk in”, it’s amazing.

And I remember, yeah, like, she was coming in and I was on the sides. I was like, aah. So amazing. Yeah, that’s the most memorable one. 

Maryam: I’m sure that one was also iconic. Imagine being influenced by the queen though.

Monica: Oh, that could have been amazing, right? Like, finally meeting her. That could have been, like, wow.

Maryam: We were talking about powerful women. I think that is a great example, right?

Monica: Yeah, and actually, now that you said that, I should have some pictures somewhere, maybe on my Facebook, like from many, many, many, many, many, many, many years ago that I haven’t seen. I hope I still have them. You made me think. Now I’ll just, like, go and check if I have some. 

Maryam: Would be great! I mean, if you could share some of those photos with us as well, that would be awesome.

Okay, you know, so moving past your LSE experience, right, in the year 2009, you graduated with a master’s degree in Management of Information Systems. From then on, what made you explore the fintech industry? Is that a typical role? How did you make that decision?

Monica: Yup, I didn’t make a decision. I was in the UK. It was 2008, 2009. We were in the middle of a financial crisis. There were no jobs. I applied for over a hundred places, a hundred jobs, got tons of rejections, and I finally got a job at Visa. So, I took the job. 

So, it was not uh, “Oh, I want to get into financial services.” It was uh, “Oh, I want to stay in the UK. I want to get a job and I’m going to do anything in my power to do this.” It was a tough year to get a job, but eventually I did. So, that opened the door to financial services. But having said that, my previous work experience in Mexico was also in a bank, so I was not going from scratch. Then, I did a few years at Visa, a few years at Barclays, and then, basically, an opportunity came up to me. 

It was like, “Hey, basically these entrepreneurs are starting a new bank.” That was the beginning of fintech, such as we know it today. The Bank of England had only given one banking license in the past one hundred years. So, this was like a unique thing, like, they were applying for a banking license and back then, I was like, well, I could continue in my job, I could go and study an MBA, or I could take this very risky job and do an experiential MBA and go and build a bank from scratch. So, I did. 

Maryam: And you did it so well. 

Monica: I kind of did. 

Maryam: Did you ever, at any point in time, feel like you want to change your career paths, you know, from fintech to another? 

Monica: A thousand times, yes. Many, many times. All the time. Yeah. So, when I was telling you about the quarter-life crisis, back then, I was like, “I don’t like this. I’m not passionate about payments. I don’t [non-lexical vocables].”

Barclays, eventually, at some point, I was like, “I don’t like this. This is boring. [non-lexical vocables].”

So yeah, no, I didn’t like it. It was until I joined the start-up world, fintech as such, that I really became very passionate about it. And I think it was two things. The founder of Tandem bank, my first fintech, he was very purpose-driven. That’s it. Everything was about, like, helping customers. Banking is broken, people have a ton of financial stress, and basically, it was that sense of — we’re not just doing our jobs. We’re just not building a bank, but we are helping people with something meaningful. So, the moment that I started adding a lens of purpose and giving back added meaning to my day-to-day job, that’s the moment that I was, like, I love this.

Maryam: I’m glad you found that passion, so, at least now, you don’t have any thoughts of, sort of, switching careers, or anything.

Actually, instead of moving sideways, you’re building your way up. 

So, as someone who has already been there and done that, and has totally excelled at it, you know, what advice do you have for other women or young girls who also want to pursue, or further their education in STEM subjects, or work in the fintech sector like you? 

Monica: Yes, it’s tough. It’s really tough, so you must be prepared. That’s my best advice. Like, be prepared, give it your best, be strategic. And what that means is, know what you want and where you’re going. Be resilient because it’s going to be tough and you’re going to have setbacks, and you’re not going to get a promotion, and you’re not going to get this, and you’re not going to get that. And people are going to talk, like, not too nicely to you. 

I’m seeing your face and you’re like, “Oh my God, this sounds horrible.” I’m like, that’s the reality of the workplace. So, it’s, uh, don’t take things personal. Be aggressive with your dreams. I think it’s that. It’s, uh, don’t take no for an answer. It’s, uh, if you want to be the president of the company, work for it. You’ll make it, but be strategic and don’t let your emotions take the best out of you. 

Maryam: Can you explain a bit further how to be strategic about this? 

Monica: Oh, that’s a good question. 

Maryam: Whether it’s in university or in the workplace or both, like, how do we navigate that?

Monica: Yeah, I’m a planner. So, when I moved to the UK, it took me, like, a year or so before I got my scholarship. But I had a spreadsheet with tons of options on how I could move abroad. University scholarship is the other and I explored them all, and I kind of tried to maximise my opportunities. So, same, when I moved to the UK, I was very clear (on) what my objective (was). Some family members were like, “You just graduated from LSE with a Distinction. Come back home. You’re not finding a job. What are you going to do?”

I was like, “I’ll stick here and work in McDonalds if I have to. Just to stay here.” And they were like, “Are you serious?” So, I was like, “Yes.”

And the reason why I’m saying this is, like, be clear on what’s your objective. That’s being strategic. Because, you know, back then, for me, my objective was not to get the best job. For me, my objective was to stay one more year in the UK so that I could have UK experience and I was obsessed with it. And then, same, like, throughout my career — so that’s at the beginning, right?

Then, when I was in Tandem, back then, I used to do a lot of coaching and I had a friend from coaching school as well. And we used to go to the park every month or two. And we would be like, “Okay, what is this month or what is this chapter about?” We were like, “Oh, I’m facing these challenges. This is what we’re doing.” And we were like, “Okay, this is a chapter where we focus on learning financials. This is a chapter where we focus on stakeholder management. This is a chapter…” — it was very intentional. 

When I moved to Malaysia, I had a checklist. I had a matrix where I assessed the opportunity, the company, the managers, and how my life could be like. And I was like, okay, it ticks the boxes. I came here and then, same, I had a list of things that I wanted to achieve as a result of moving here. In a year, two, or three, I achieved them, and then I was like, “Why am I staying?”

And then again, it’s uh, you need to go back to “What do you want? What’s your objective?” and work for it. So, that’s what I mean (by) “be strategic”. Know what you want, have a plan, execute the plan.

Maryam: I think that’s really good advice. It’s really thorough as well and I think we can all learn from that.

So, last question but not the least, chuckles, last but not least, what’s next for Monica Millares? Are there any exciting projects you’d like to share or tease?

Monica: That’s a very difficult question because I don’t even know what’s next. In a way, but I’m like, “To dominate the world!”

Laughs, no, uh, the podcast. I love the podcast. As you know, like, I have my side project. It’s a passion project that, by now, has become my life’s work. So, whatever my next job is or remains to be, the podcast continues to have a ton of relevance and importance in my life. So, it’s more of, uh, how can I do it better? How can I impact more people? How can I contribute more to the industry, younger generations? I think that’s kind of — part of my life’s work is in communicating and I love the podcast. So, it’s like I’m obsessed again. 

Maryam: That sounds awesome. Yeah, I’ve seen your podcast before. I think you’re doing really, really great. 

Monica: Thank you.

Maryam: Alright! 

I think we’ve come to the end of our chat with the brilliant Monica. We hope you all had fun listening in. 

Be sure to check us out at www.studyinternational.com and connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok. We can be found across these platforms under the username Study International.

Until next time!

Shekinah Kannan: Hello, listeners. Welcome back to Extra Credit. Your podcast gateway into the world of international education. If this is your first time tuning in, we're here to uncover the ins and outs of studying abroad through the eyes of students, faculty and education experts from around the globe. I'm your host, Shekinah, and today, we're diving into a fresh start in what's widely considered the world's best study-abroad destination – Australia. More specifically, we'll be looking at how two of Australia's top universities have been guiding international students through new beginnings and why their upcoming merger into Adelaide University promises even greater support and opportunities. Joining me to discuss this exciting future are two key figures deeply involved in student engagement and support. We have Brendan Hughes, director of the student engagement unit at the University of South Australia, and Shawna Hooton, manager of international support at the University of Adelaide. Together, they'll walk us through how Adelaide University will shape a welcoming, innovative and supportive environment for international students. We'll talk about everything from choosing the right university to overcoming homesickness, making friends and preparing for a great career. So, without further ado, let's welcome them. 

Hi guys. How are you today? 

Shawna Hooton: Hi, Shekinah, thanks for having us on the show. It's great to be here. 

Brendan Hughes: Hey, Shekinah, great to be here as well. Thank you. Good intro. 

Shekinah Kannan: Thank you so much for making the time to join us, and we're really excited to know more about Adelaide University and, of course, how your respective institutions are supporting international students today. So, to jump right into it, Adelaide University's homepage opens with this line, “Launching the next generation of leaders towards their significant firsts.” By the phrase significant firsts, we know Adelaide University is recognising how important this transition period is. It's the first big decision to choose a subject to prepare for their first career, the first time they're choosing a university, the first time living alone, and so forth. Before we go into how Adelaide University supports students through each of these new stages in their lives, it will be great to know more about the overarching policy and philosophy that Adelaide University takes in supporting international students. 

Brendan, perhaps you want to walk us through that. 

Brendan Hughes: Sure, I'll probably go first with this, and then Shawna can contribute. But I think we also chose the term “launching” because Adelaide is going to be home to the Australian Space Agency as well. So there's some double entendre with the idea that we've got the Space Agency, we've got the newest university in the world and like you said, based on the histories of the University of South Australia and the University of Adelaide, which have been around for over 180 years, we are looking to build a more successful and contemporary future-focused teaching and learning experience for students, including international students. Adelaide University will become a member of the prestigious group of eight universities, which are the research-focused universities, but also really trying to balance that idea of research excellence as well as equity and accessibility. We're aspiring to be the best university in student employment outcomes. So that's some of our philosophies that you were looking for, and also to be in the top one per cent of universities in terms of world rankings. So, with the outstanding facilities and practices that the two universities currently have, we're going to build on those, I guess, again, with the theme of launching would be that launchpad towards going into the future and being future-focused. We're transforming our curriculum by making sure that it's industry-relevant and industry-informed. We're also going to be making sure that students, I believe most students these days, are looking for a university degree that can help them have an outstanding career. So really focusing on that career development, the work integrated learning, how they can become better, the best versions of themselves, and make the world a better place. Then lastly, just in terms of having a student experience vision for Adelaide University, we've developed one across the university that's been informed by our current students, that is essentially holistic and integrated in its approach. It's relentlessly pursuing accessibility and inclusion. We will collaborate and create rich experiences across our engaging communities and will integrate employability across the student experience. So this is going to achieve that student experience for our international and domestic students to come together at Adelaide University and to be able to have the most terrific experience that they can, which is recognising this is a big decision for international students and their families. Shawna, I'm not sure if you wanted to expand on anything that I might have missed. 

Shawna Hooton: Well, just coming back to something that you said earlier about the vision being informed by our current students, I just really wanted to highlight that, because I think a big benefit of starting a new university off the back of two already really successful universities is we have all of these current students, and we're listening to them. We want to know the university that they want to go into in the future. And having that student voice and honouring and embedding that student voice into our vision, but also into our operational practices in the new university, is something that I think is really special, really unique to Adelaide University. 

Brendan Hughes: And that's a good point, Shawna. Also, even in the creation of our Adelaide University, we've set up a student advisory panel where we actually have 20 students from each institution, making a group of 40 who come together every two weeks to be able to soundboard the different ideas that we're putting together in terms of curriculum, graduate qualities, services for students, the whole gambit. So, I think there has been a really informed student voice embedded throughout both the process and the ultimate delivery of Adelaide University, 

Shawna Hooton: And that group includes a number of international students, doesn't it, Brendan? 

Brendan Hughes: It does. Yeah.

Shawna Hooton: That's awesome. 

Shekinah Kannan: That's really, really cool, not something you hear of every day, but very refreshing to hear, I think, especially not just taking students' opinions into account for current practices, but for a whole new university, it's something quite special, and I'm so excited to know more about what their opinions have translated to later on in the episode when we talk a bit more about the whole student experience. But before we jump into that, let's reverse all the way to the very beginning, when students are looking at studying overseas and they're faced with these two big questions, “Which country should I go to?” and “What university should I join?” Based on your experience, Brendan perhaps you might want to start, what makes Australia stand out and gain its reputation as one of the most welcoming study-abroad destinations today. 

Brendan Hughes: Yeah, well, someone who's from Canada, where it's really cold, I think the weather is a big appeal in terms of Australia having great weather, having great beaches, having great lifestyle, the safety factor, the idea that there's a lot of different things that's pretty exotic, in the sense that you can see kangaroos where you may not be able to see them anywhere else in the world, except in the occasional zoo or safari. But in terms of higher education and international students, Australia has what no other GA country has, which is legislation that provides consumer rights to international students. So this means that universities are held to the highest standard to be able to make sure that when delivering promises, that international students are able to make sure that those are going to follow through. So that, to me, is the biggest point of difference if I was talking or giving advice to an international student to be considering these across the many options that they would have in terms of why Australia is actually the biggest point of difference, not just again, because it's nice or the weather's nice, or there are fun things to do, but also because the education is of high quality. They're ranked consistently in the top 100 for universities, delivering on the student experience, and being able to have that has led to the fact that we do also have a multicultural community within both Adelaide and Australia in a broader context. So in that respect, I think that it's really a great choice for students to know that they can get an outstanding education that's going to deliver on their goals of getting their career.

Shekinah Kannan: Shawna, I don't know if you want to throw anything in about the lifestyle there. 

Shawna Hooton: Yeah. I mean, as Brendon mentioned, him and I are actually both from Canada. We've only met recently, even though we live in the same city, but we thought it would be quite fun to have two Canadians talking to our friends out there today about Australian universities and welcoming in the international student cohort. Just like Brendan said I mean, we have the quality education, but we also have the beauty, the exoticism of having palm trees. When I rode my bike to work this morning, there were beautiful palm trees, I went past the Laura Keats, which are beautiful green parrots swooping around. So we really have it all here in a very inclusive country. Though, the multiculturalism is something that is a huge drawcard for me. Just being able to interact with people respectfully from all different cultures, experience food that I actually had never experienced back in Canada, we've had great Vietnamese food here in Australia that I hadn't experienced much of back home, and all the cultural festivals that I think we'll talk a little bit more detail about later on, that Australia as a destination is really something special,

Shekinah Kannan: Definitely. I mean, yeah, it sounds incredible. Now that a student has decided that Australia is the best country for them, obviously, what should they look out for when selecting a university? Compared to other options in Australia, what makes Adelaide University stand out as a launchpad for international students and the best place for a new chapter in someone's life? I'm sure both of you have great insights on that.

Brendan Hughes: Yeah, I might go first, if that's okay, Shawna, and then you can jump in. But I think again, for Adelaide University, aspiring to be the number one in Australia for graduate employment outcomes is where there's that alignment to what are people looking for from their degree and to be able to have, again, it's a combination of an outstanding educational experience, which we have the opportunity that no other university has to then reconceptualise with an industry informed, student-focused curriculum that you can't necessarily do along the way over transformative you actually get this opportunity to do, as we pivot from our current universities to Adelaide University. The amount of time and effort that's gone into that, we're talking 10,000 hours and 10,000 people, and lots of work being done that then delivers on that outstanding experience that's in the classroom, as well as combined with the activities outside the classroom. So being able to work with our student associations and have that student-informed voice, which you've obviously heard, is a very important part of how Adelaide University is positioning ourselves to then also be able to make sure that those career aspirations are fully informed, so we'll have work integrated learning in all of our undergraduate programmes. So that's something that isn't very common across all universities, but we're going to make that a point of difference with, again, the aspiration of making sure that our students will be able to get the careers and the jobs that they want to make themselves, their world and their communities a better place. So, in that respect, Adelaide University just has so much promise in terms of being able to want those people who are looking for that sense of adventure, the sense of excellence, the ability to come and study and be able to get a great job and work in one of the most livable cities in the world, have the experience of a lifetime. That's what I think Adelaide University is going to be able to make as a point of difference. But I think there's probably other things that Shawna can think of, and we might riff back and forth. 

Shawna Hooton: But yeah, did you see me taking a few notes there as you were speaking?

Brendan Hughes: Oh, I did maybe. Our listeners can't hear that. 

Shawna Hooton: I just wanted to go back to what you mentioned about the work-integrated learning being included in all the undergraduate programmes, that is huge. And I used to work at a university in Canada that had that embedded in a few programmes, and seeing the impact of that on students' lives was something so unique. Work-integrated learning for those of our listeners that aren't from the Australian context, are embedded internships and work experience that fits into the curriculum. So it's not just that someone gets a part-time job and goes in and does that and gains some skills, which is also useful, but it's they gain this work experience that can then come into the classroom, and they can speak about that work experience in the classroom, and then when they're in their work experience, they can speak about what they're learning in the classroom, and bring some of that new technology, those new ideas, into the workplace. So it's a real benefit for our local employers, as well as for the students and for the classrooms and the course coordinators. So work-integrated learning is one thing that I'm really excited about for the new university. Then just riffing off a little bit about what you talked about, Adelaide city being such a livable city, I think that is a term that we throw around a lot. We always explain it to new international students as being “the 20-minute city.” So everything is walkable within the central business district, so the CBD, within 20 minutes. So you can go from the university, which is on the North Terrace, all the way to the South Terrace, where there are beautiful parklands. You can walk there in 20 minutes. You can drive to any of our beautiful beaches in 20 minutes, or take the tram in 20 minutes. You can get to the airport in 20 minutes. Then on the other side, you can get to our hills, which have all of our beautiful wineries. So if you want to go and explore wine country, go do some tasting, maybe as part of one of our wine business programmes or our viticulture programme, we have all those experiences that are within 20 minutes. I mentioned earlier that I rode my bike to work this morning, so that's everything is very livable, the transportation, public transportation, and walking and cycling are really big here. It's really safe to do and it's really affordable. So those are elements that we really like to celebrate with our students when they come here, just knowing about that safety, that livability, but also all of the beautiful sights of the swimming beaches, surfing beaches, dolphins. I know I feel like I'm like a sales pitch for Adelaide, like I went swimming at the beach in the summer, and there were seals and dolphins swimming in the water with me. How beautiful is that? 

Shekinah Kannan: It's amazing.

Brendan Hughes: Just speaking of swimming with dolphins. There's a program at Kangaroo Island that you can go and swim with dolphins, and you jump off a boat and they come back and forth. I would put that in the top five things that I've done in my life. 

Shekinah Kanan: I love that.

Brendan Hughes: You know the fact that those are at your doorstep here, again point of difference? 

Shekinah Kannan: Yeah, definitely. That was all incredible. But I think one thing that stood out to me, actually, a couple of things, is that the accessibility is great, especially for students who are looking to come to Australia to do more than study. If they're, you know, planning on getting a part-time job, knowing that the commute is not crazy and that they can do it all seamlessly. That's incredible. Another thing that was mentioned, the work-integrated learning, the industry, informed curriculum, that's all great. I know that a lot of that probably stems from the fact that the University of South Australia and the University of Adelaide both have incredible partnerships with big companies. Would be great if we could do a little name-drop, if possible, in terms of like, the companies that students could potentially work with during their studies. 

Brendan Hughes: Well, absolutely, I think we are fortunate. I know between the two universities, we'd have over 5000 partners that we'd be working with in terms of the combined amount of industry partners. For example, in South Australia, one of the largest, especially in health, is SA Health as part of the South Australian state government, which would host the, probably the largest amount of our student placements. But we'd have students who do placements with either small medium enterprises or be working on projects with Fortune 500 companies. So one of the institutes that we have at the University of South Australia is the Ehrenberg-Bass Institute and they work with the top 500 Fortune companies in terms of market research, and they're an industry leader in that space. That's another thing that we'll be bringing into Adelaide University. So when you have BAE as a defense sector leader, or if you have again Mars Incorporated in terms of the food and retail plus a number of the wine organisations that would be across both Australia and internationally, there's just a number of industry partners that we work with, both locally, nationally and internationally. 

Shekinah Kannan: Nice, that's great. Definitely a lot of options to go around. And yeah, it sounds like a pretty easy choice. For anyone who's listening in, confused about where they're going to go, Adelaide University does sound like a solid option. I guess for those who are sure of their decision and are sure of coming to Adelaide University, for any international student, one of the hardest parts about leaving home is how much they're going to miss their family, especially during the first couple months and you know, some international students have never even travelled abroad before or lived anywhere else other than their home country. So, while Adelaide is beautiful, incredible, safe, convenient, and the first few months will still be tough. You know, to get used to everything being different and new can sometimes be overwhelming as well. So how will Adelaide University help students settle into their new home, away from home?

Shawna Hooton: Are you all right if I start with this one, Brendan? Thank you. So I think part of the support for this transition needs to happen before students have even left their home country. So we're committed to having pre-departure information for students. Currently, we have some webinars that we offer, so my team and I, as well as some other support services, jump online for a couple of hours at different time periods that match time zones around the world and we're there to answer questions. So we provide a lot of information for students, really trying to set them up for success before they've even left their home country, and making sure that they have clear expectations, what it's going to be like as they are in the airport, going through immigration, going through different checks. So when they get there, they know what to expect. So when they get on the airplane and it says, “Make sure you're not bringing any fruit and vegetables in your suitcase,” we tell them about that level of detail in the webinars so that there's nothing that they're like, “Oh my gosh, I didn't know that.” Anything that's going to raise those stress levels, we really just try to deal with ahead of time. And when they arrive in the airport, we're really fortunate here in South Australia to have a state government department called Study Adelaide, and they support international students across the state, and they offer an airport welcome service. So they have student ambassadors from a number of different countries that are basically camped out at the airport for the whole month before each study period starts, and they're just there to welcome all of the flights of international students as they arrive. So students get this big, warm welcome. They get a welcome pack with information, including a phone card that they can use for the first couple of weeks they're here. So really practical support, but also feeling that they belong and feeling that they're really welcomed into the community here in South Australia is something that we're really grateful to be partnering with Study Adelaide to do. Then, of course, there's orientation. So once students arrive on campus, we'll have a big orientation programme. Both universities currently have really robust programmes, especially for our international students. It, again, includes not only presentations and workshops into all of the more serious things that students need to be aware of and keep safe about but then also a lot of social programmes. Currently, at the University of Adelaide, we offer campus tours so our peer mentors so they're student-to-student led campus tours, and I know something similar happens at UniSA, so we'll collaborate and come together and bring all of our student leaders to welcome the new cohorts of students as they enter Adelaide University. But we also take them for city tours. We take them on the tram so that they learn how to use the tram and the train to go on excursions out to local beaches. We take them to wildlife park so that they can get really excited about being here and have that very first cuddle with a koala in their first week, and all those selfies with kangaroos. I've been doing this for nine years, and I still am like, “I'll go on those trips. I'll go on those trips.”

Shekinah Kannan: You guys may not be able to see this, but Brendan is throwing up a heart right now, raising the roof as well.

Shawna Hooton: Just to see how the joy that international students have upon those first kangaroo and koala sightings. I think that mix is what we're planning for, that mix of practical support, information that's required, around policies, around student visa requirements, making sure they're staying really compliant the whole time that they're here, but also so that they know exactly who to turn to throughout each step of their academic journey. We also try to drip feed some information along the way, because we know it's pretty overwhelming in that first week to get information, so we try to give them a little bit then and then a little bit along the way, all mixed in with the fun stuff.

Brendan Hughes: One thing I'd probably add because again, as you mentioned, there are certain things that the University of Adelaide would do or we do currently and we're planning on doing for Adelaide University. So again, when students arrive at the airport, we'll actually pick them up and take them to wherever their accommodation is. And obviously, if they needed help finding accommodation, we would do that as part of that pre-departure piece. Then once they've arrived, we also do an international student welcome and we bring the students together, they get an official welcome from either the vice-chancellor or senior dignitary from the university. As well as what's important for your listeners and probably they would understand which Australia is home to the longest-living culture of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in the world. So they've been around for 65,000 or 85,000 years in terms of being the local people, which is the Kaurna people. We have campuses also in Waite and Whyalla, so these are some of our regional South Australian campuses, but we actually have students across Australia with our online presence. So we do really make sure that we connect our students both, especially if students are coming from a particular home country with other students from their home countries, so they can have that sense of familiarity and safety and be able to say, “Well, what do you think or what's your advice?” There are large groups of students, so there's a large Indian community within Adelaide. So again, being able to understand where places to go to eat, have fun, movies, shows, whichever. It's really about connecting. So I'm not a psychologist or a social worker in terms of counselling but I used to be a camp counsellor, and the best thing to do is to actually make sure that people are busy, they have stuff to do, and they also know where to go if they need help. So those are the basics in terms of alleviating homesickness or making sure that if people are feeling a bit sad or missing home, because that's an understandable experience, is to make sure that, again, they have people here, they know how to connect with their family back home, and they can really focus on the task at hand, which is to be able to get settled, to be successful, and then to enjoy their student experience.

Shawna Hooton: Thanks, Brendan, for also mentioning counselling because we do have, and we will have in the new university, a really good counselling service for international students and they actually partner with us to run some homesickness workshops. Those tend to be really popular workshops, and we usually run them in about week four or five, once you think about the homesickness roller coaster or the culture shock roller coaster. Usually, students start off with a lot of excitement, and orientation is a fun time, but often in that kind of week four, week five time when the assignments start coming in and you may be missing some family functions back home, the homesickness can be a little bit hard, and I know I experienced it when I first came. So we've set up these workshops so students can share with each other about some really practical ways that they dealt with homesickness when they first arrived. Then our counselling team is also there to help guide them through some of the resources and support available to them. So it is something we take really seriously because we know it can have a big impact on students' wellbeing, but also on their academics if they're not feeling really secure in their studies. 

Brendan Hughes: We also know that we've been fairly successful. So both universities have participated in a programme through IGraduate, which is called the International Student Barometer, and it's a survey mechanism that goes up to international students around the world, and we've been able to get really positive feedback through that process in terms of asking our students how well we've done to welcome them, make them feel supported and set up for success. So, it's also an evidence-based approach.

Shekinah Kannan: Right.

Shawna Hooton The university has a dedicated international student support service for students, and we're all really approachable, and we have an open-door policy. So I was just telling my team, “My door is only closed right now because I'm in this podcast,” and I said, “Please don't knock so it doesn't disrupt it,” and they were all like, “What, we can always knock on your door. We can always come into your door.” That's something that we really pride ourselves in for how we want students to feel with us, is we do have that open door policy for them. They can drop in, they can come and see our support staff, our advisors and myself at our morning tea every week. So we're all out there with the students. We're not up in an ivory tower that people can't access. I love that about the work that we get to do here.

Shekinah Kannan: Yeah, sounds like a really warm welcome for international students. I guess I can see why both the University of South Australia and the University of Adelaide both have really big numbers of international students. I guess it would be nice if we can talk a little bit more about how different backgrounds and cultures are not just made to feel at home but kind of like supported throughout the year or how they feel at home throughout the year. So I'd love to know a bit more about the events that go on throughout the year, and I guess just how students are encouraged to share their culture and experience new ones as well. 

Shawna Hooton: Great question and something that we're really passionate about. Both universities have a number of large cultural festivals that we coordinate with the partnership of our international students, and right now we're just getting ready for our mid-autumn festival. So tomorrow, the students have a big mid-autumn festival that they're planning with mooncakes and music and dance, and that will be out on the lawns. We have about 350 students coming. We have seven student clubs involved with it, and we have two casual staff, who are students, who are the organisers of it. Even though I say it's our event, it's very much their event, that they have invited us to come and participate. They're all in the workshop right now, cutting up little flowers and getting the mooncakes all packaged so that they're ready to give out. So it's a really exciting time for us all to come together and we have a number of those festivals. We always have a big Diwali festival as well, a Lunar New Year. Then there are also the community festivals that we take international students to, The Adelaide Fringe, it is the second biggest Fringe Festival in the world. We have a cabaret festival. Oz Asia festival is coming up next month, I think pretty soon. Like I said earlier, lots of multiculturalism in Adelaide, and the universities do a really great job in celebrating that and working with the students. We have another programme called Language and Cultural Engagement, and these are cultural kind of mini-festivals that we run fortnightly with about 150 students. Again, they're very much student-driven, so at the beginning of each year, we ask who wants to showcase their culture to the rest of the students, both local and international students. Then, from that list, we put together 10 of these dinner parties. So the students get a certain amount of money. We pay for hot food for them all to have a big buffet. Then they put on the performances. They teach other students how to speak some simple phrases in their home language, and it's a really fun, fun evening of learning and sharing with each other. That's something that we're keen to continue within the new university and know the commitment of Adelaide University to that multiculturalism and celebrating cultural diversity. Then we also give students opportunities to celebrate local culture and improve their English because we do know that feeling, that sense of belonging and feeling that you can come with your home language and your home way of seeing the world and engaging in academics, and it sometimes can be a bit overwhelming. So we offer a number of different workshops and the conversation clubs for students just to practice their English, to be matched up with a local volunteer so that they can hear someone's use of Australian. As a Canadian, I thought I wouldn't have any culture shock when I arrived. I'm not sure if it's the same for you, Brendan, but there are still quite a few phrases that catch me off guard that I wasn't familiar with. Well, yes, Australians have some fun ways of playing with language to make different idioms, and we offer those opportunities for students to meet with local retirees and local staff members who have Australian accents of all different kinds so that they can learn those races and just feel a bit more comfortable in the community.

Brendan Hughes: The other thing that Australians have is about Australian rules football. So just to be able to think of how to immerse yourself through sport in terms of Australian culture. Adelaide has two of the leading teams in the AFL sporting code, but we also have a number of cricket championships. So the Adelaide Ovals, one of the nicest cricket playing fields in the world. So I know, again, a lot of our students are from India, where cricket is part sport, part religion, and to be thinking of, you know, making sure there's avenues for that, plus the big bash and the more contemporary types of cricket. But then through all the different sporting clubs that we have, in terms of rowing or rock climbing and everything in between, there's just something for everyone, in terms of not just the sporting clubs, but then also the Student Association having, again, clubs that are either of interest clubs or potentially home country based in terms of either the Nepalese Student Association or again, they might be faith-based in terms of the Islamic Student Association and things like that, in terms of co-hosting with some of these international days of observance. 

Shekinah Kannan: Yeah, that's really, really cool. I think apart from, you know, students feeling at home, it's also so interesting and probably really riveting to experience so many different other cultures and get so much global perspective in the process. But obviously, yeah, it sounds like something that could be nice to get used to. Learning something new every single day. It sounds really cool. Another part of the fresh start, obviously, apart from, you know, getting used to your new surroundings and learning the language of the land, like another part of it, is getting used to a new academic system, which is obviously quite unique. Adelaide University, is quite unique in terms of its approaches based on everything I've read online, and I'm sure based on all the feedback that you've gotten from students, I'm sure something really interesting has come out from that. So do you guys have any examples of you know, or success stories of how your university has engaged students to adjust to Adelaide University's brand of innovative teaching?

Shawna Hooton: Yeah. Thank you. So in orientation, we do offer some workshops on adjusting to the academic system, because we recognise students coming from different cultures have very different ways that they've been brought up in education systems. The Australian education system and the universities that we both are currently at have a very interactive academic system, so there will be a lecture, but then there will also be a tutorial or workshop or seminar. These ways of learning, it is encouraged to be very interactive, and some students aren't used to that. They're used to having a much more passive learning environment. So in these sessions, we offer students the opportunity to see ahead of time what a tutorial might look like or a workshop might look like, and how they can get the most out of that teaching session. So we talk a lot about there's no dumb questions. Ask away, ask away, ask away. Go to the teacher's office hours. Really try to get clarity on anything that you don't understand in the moment, or in the office hours or in the online platforms offered for discussion, and really take the ownership of your own learning. So it's really beneficial when students are able to come to those sessions ahead of time, to get a bit of a feel for what it's going to be like, and just be encouraged to engage and take on that ownership but also during their whole academic journey, there's offerings for them in the academic learning space. So there's support with writing, with maths. We also have something at both universities called Peer Assisted study sessions. So we call them PASS. So the PASS sessions are run by current students who have already finished a course, and they meet with the students in the course for small group discussions. So every week, students can come and meet with basically a senior student for some tips and tricks on how to succeed in that class and just a bit of a review of the material that's gone over. So they're not teaching staff, they're students, but they have been successful previously in the class and are able to bring their success to that next group of students to learn how to engage with the material in the best way.

Brendan Hughes: Just to add on, I think in terms of sometimes when a student makes the choice to come to the university, there's a gap between the time that they enrol or apply and then the time that they actually arrive. So we also do have a pre-arrival orientation online modules that actually help students to be prepared for, as Shawna said, just to be able to expect in terms of studying or how to do referencing, and those elements of the university that will need to be able to start from the ground running, and then also, obviously, when they do get here, in addition to the things that Shawna mentioned, just to be able to know that the library across each of our campuses are places where students congregate and can ask questions, and libraries now are much different than the libraries I went to when I was growing up, where you can have food and you can have laughter and you can have noise, and sometimes you actually have access to more online books versus even just physical books, but that makes sure that students actually have access to the books that they need when they need it, to ensure that equity piece and access to the educational resources that they need. So there's definitely a lot of ways that we support students again through that piece, to be able to be a student, and then also think of the first six weeks, that first six months, and then that first year as a new university student or new uni student, and to be able to be ready for again, year two and beyond.

Shekinah Kannan: It definitely sounds like the theme of support persists throughout before students get there, once you're there throughout their studies and I'm 100% sure it lasts all the way up till the final bits of their education –

Brendan Hughes: It does.

Shekinah Kannan: – lasts in their final year as international students, you know, at another phase in their life, and that's graduation, and it's daunting, and they're about to enter the job market for the very first time as a professional. That's a whole journey starting all over again in itself, and I do know that both institutions currently offer a lot of support in that area. I'm curious to know a bit more about the services and resources that are being offered now, and what plans are in place for Adelaide University as well. 

Brendan Hughes: So I think probably actually just a comment as well when you mentioned support throughout. So we actually make sure that we don't wait till the final year to support international students, right? So it's actually about this idea that it's throughout. It's scaffolded. At UniSA, we've got career development learning, which is embedded in about 40% of our programmes. That career development learning makes sure that they get the discipline knowledge from the subject that they're studying, but they also get the ability to make sure that as they take that and they apply, whether that's in engineering or education, they can make sure that they have the transferable skills to move either between jobs or careers, and to make sure that they can take ownership for their careers and know that it's not just about what you know it's sometimes about who you know. So how you do networking, or how you prepare for jobs. Having that work-integrated learning allows especially international students to then have local contacts and individuals who can actually talk about their skills and experience. In addition to that, we also have a jobs on campus programme where, like you said, international students are looking for part-time jobs to be able to work throughout their studies, whether that's to contribute towards their life and activities, or to be able to send money back home, but to make sure that we've got jobs on campus that actually meets the needs of the students and is hopefully also aligned with their disciplines, so they're getting work experience in their field, I think is also very important. Then with their career services, we do work with the students and make sure that they have the tools and resources throughout their journey, but then also when they get towards that final year, be able to make sure that we've got career expos that helps students to be able to make sure that they're getting contact with future employers that we're able to ensure that those students can again apply successfully and get the coaching that they need to be able to make those applications. Again, it goes back to my comment earlier, which was having the individual figure out, do they want to stay here and do work, or do they want to apply that back in their home country. For example, you'd appreciate that we have a large number of Indian and Chinese nationals who would be studying with us, and so both universities have contacts in China and India to then be able to help those students who want to take their Australian degree and bring that back to their home country and gain connections with employers, and make sure that they can then find a fulfilling career for them, for their families and ultimately, for their future. Anything you wanted to add to that Shauna that I might have missed?

Shawna Hooton: I think you've covered everything, Brendon. I'm glad you mentioned the Career Expo. That's always a favourite time for me of the year on campus, just seeing all the students come together with hundreds and hundreds of professionals, and how excited the students are wearing their suits and looking the part while they're networking, and all the support that the Career Service offers ahead of time helping students prep for that networking, because that can be pretty daunting going into a networking situation with people that you admire and want to get job with one day, and so preparing them for that adequately, and then seeing the excitement on those days on campus with all of the industry experts and all of the students coming together has beautiful synergy. The only other thing I wanted to mention is we do all throw some pretty great parties for graduation. I know Adelaide University will be excited to graduate our first group of students. I'm really looking forward to that day. We do the caps and gowns and all of the pomp and circumstance, but then we also throw a good farewell party for our international students. This year, we're getting prepared to throw it at the wine centre. So we're really lucky here in Adelaide to have the National Wine Centre with thousands of the best wines from all over Australia. There's a big basically a conference centre there. So we rent it out for our international students, and we have our Deputy Vice-Chancellor come and last year, she helped to lead us in the macarena. Everyone was on the dance floor, and it was a great time. So just thought I had to mention the party piece as well. 

Shekinah Kannan: Definitely. 

Brendan Hughes: The other thing about the Career Expo that I forgot to mention was even though Adelaide city is one of the smaller capital cities in Australia, we actually have one of the largest career expos in Australia. So we do I think another Australian term I've learned is we punch above our weight in terms of the size of the city and that ability of making sure that we have employers that are able to attend. We sell out every year. We use the Adelaide Convention Centre because it's so big that we need to be able to have that as a venue, plus be able to do activities throughout the year. So even as recently as this week, we had a career connect, again work with the student association, brought in employers, had 250 international students be able to come on campus and be able to hear from employers, apply for jobs, learn what the sector is looking for. So there's activities happening throughout the year in terms of that career focus, which we know is so important to all of our students, especially international students. 

Shekinah Kannan: Definitely. I do love the element of support being available for anyone no matter what their aspiration is, not just whether they want to work in Australia or if they want to go home or if they want to go to another country, someone is always around to make sure that they achieve whatever their dream is. That's really, really cool. If I had to do it all over, I definitely know where I'm going.

Brendan Hughes: Awesome. We would love to have you and it's never too late, Shekinah.

Shekinah Kannan: The whole experience honestly sounds like it's appropriate for anyone, whatever a fresh start means to them. Someone who's just graduated high school, or someone who's looking to start life abroad with education as a pathway, or someone who's looking to change their career entirely, it sounds like this experience is fitting for just about anyone. So I have faith in myself that one day, if the time comes, I know where I'm going.

Brendan Hughes: You can look us up.

Shawna Hooton: We welcome you with open arms. 

Shekinah Kannan: Definitely, you definitely will, because this whole episode was about me being welcomed with open arms. It really does I guess, all in all, it sounds like Adelaide University is setting a new standard for supporting international students, and I really do hope that we get to cover more of it when the university is completely up and running, and I can't wait to see and hear what that sounds like. So, a huge thank you to both of you, Brendan and Shawna, for joining us today and walking us through Adelaide University and how it offers really an incredible environment for students ready to take on those big firsts. 

Brendan Hughes: Thanks Shekinah

Shawna Hooton: Thanks for having us.

Shekinah Kannan: Thank you both so much for joining me today. So, to all our listeners, if you're considering studying abroad, Adelaide University should be at the top of your list. To learn more about it, visit adelaideuni.edu.au, and follow them on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram and TikTok under the username AdelaideUni. And of course, if you love this episode, don't forget to subscribe to the Extra Credit podcast. We've got more inspiring stories and expert advice coming your way. But of course, feel free to share your thoughts and episode ideas with us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and TikTok under the username Study International. Thanks for tuning in and until next time, take care and keep learning. 

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