A conversation with Fatima Bhutto, novelist and cultural commentator. We discuss our current moment during the pandemic and political upheaval. We also explore Fatima’s memories of her grandfather and his vision of Pakistan. Over the course of the hour, Fatima discloses some of her most painful experiences, namely her father’s murder, and the journey of making sense of her pain and the world around her. We end the conversation with a discussion on her latest nonfiction work, New Kings of the World, in which entertainment industries of the East are making their mark on the world today.