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Fear and Loathing: The Danger of Numerical Goals
Fear and Loathing: The Danger of Numerical Goals
In this episode of the Why They Fail Podcast, we take on one of the biggest traps in modern management: the obsession with numerical goals.
Dr. W. Edwards Deming warned against this decades ago in his famous Point 11, which calls for the elimination of management by objectives. Today, those warnings still apply.
Our guest is John Dyer, bestselling author of The Facade of Excellence and a Master Black Belt who spent decades at General Electric and Ingersoll Rand.
John has also written many articles for IndustryWeek magazine, which you can read here:
https://www.industryweek.com/home/contact/22028785/john-dyer
He also hosts the Behind the Curtain: Adventures in Continuous Improvement podcast on IndustryWeek:
https://www.industryweek.com/podcasts/behind-the-curtain
John explains how the focus on hitting numbers breeds fear and manipulation instead of real improvement. Together, we break down how to fix the system, not the people, and how real leadership drives long term excellence.
The Root Cause of Failure: Management by Objectives
Deming’s 14 Points shaped the foundation of modern quality management. Yet, the most misunderstood remains his call to end management by objectives.
When leaders impose numerical targets without improving the system or providing the right tools, they set teams up to fail. It creates a culture of blame and fear, the very opposite of trust and innovation.
John shared powerful examples. In one case, a company proudly reported a 99% first-pass yield, while customer returns hit 20%. The numbers looked good, but the truth was hidden. This Facade of Excellence proves why chasing targets over truth destroys credibility and improvement.
Learn more about Lean and Six Sigma here
Substituting Leadership for Numerical Goals
So, what replaces management by numbers? Leadership.
Deming’s Point 11 calls for leaders who coach instead of command. A good system helps good people succeed. A bad system defeats even the most skilled team.
John emphasized that unrealistic goals do more harm than good. Setting unreachable targets, like jumping from 90% quality to 99% overnight, only frustrates teams and drives shortcuts.
Instead, focus on leading improvement, not demanding results. Six Sigma Black Belt certification teaches this principle in depth.
The Power of Celebration Points
Instead of rigid objectives, John promotes Celebration Points - small, achievable wins that create momentum and pride.
For instance, a team aiming for 100% quality could celebrate at 92%, then 94%, then 97%. These steps build confidence and enthusiasm.
Continuous improvement isn’t about perfection overnight. It’s about steady progress and consistent leadership support.
This mindset reflects the true spirit of Kaizen, where every improvement, no matter how small , matters.
The Hidden Barrier: Managerial Fear
One of the most surprising insights John shared was that the biggest barrier to lasting change isn’t technical - it’s emotional.
Middle managers often fear becoming irrelevant when problems disappear. When continuous improvement eliminates “fires,” some managers feel their value vanishes.
The solution? Redefine leadership. Great managers coach, mentor, and build systems that win without constant crisis. They’re not firefighters. They’re enablers of excellence.
Key Takeaways
✅ Deming’s Point 11 shows why management by objectives fails and breeds fear.
✅ Fix processes, not people. Systems determine success.
✅ Replace rigid goals with celebration points to boost morale.
✅ Managerial fear can block progress—turn managers into mentors.
✅ Data manipulation creates a false Facade of Excellence that hides real issues.
Free Resource
📘 Get your free copy of "Why They Fail … and the Simple Key to Success" by Kevin Clay.
Learn why 90% of continuous improvement efforts collapse within 18 months and how to build a sustainable system that lasts.
Download your free copy here.
About the Guest
John Dyer is a Master Black Belt, consultant, and author of The Facade of Excellence. His work blends Deming’s timeless wisdom with today’s business realities. Learn more about his insights at johndyergroup.com.
About Six Sigma Development Solutions, Inc.
This episode is sponsored by Six Sigma Development Solutions, Inc. (SSDSI) — delivering Operational Excellence Around the Globe.
SSDSI is an IASSC Accredited Training Organization (ATO) that has certified over 4,000 professionals and helped 100+ organizations in 52 countries achieve more than $100M in documented savings.
Explore our certification programs:
Contact us at [email protected] or call 866-922-6566.
Learn more at sixsigmadsi.com.
Podcast Chapters
00:00 - Introduction: The Goal of 100% Excellence
01:04 - Guest Intro: John Dyer, Author of The Facade of Excellence
02:59 - “Who Do We Need to Fire?” – The Wrong Question
04:25 - Fixing the Process, Not the People
07:38 - Deming’s Point 11 and Management by Objectives
12:35 - Setting Realistic Goals that Motivate
15:58 - Celebration Points and the Power of Progress
19:48 - Creating Enthusiastic Productivity
23:54 - Manipulated Metrics and the Facade of Excellence
26:51 - Overcoming Managerial Fear and Building a Coaching Culture
FAQ: Fear and Loathing – The Danger of Numerical Goals
Q1: What is Deming’s Point 11?
Deming’s Point 11 is about eliminating management by numerical objectives and replacing it with leadership that builds trust and system-wide improvement.
Q2: Why does management by objectives fail?
It creates fear. Employees focus on hitting numbers instead of fixing the root cause of problems.
Q3: What are Celebration Points?
Celebration Points are small, achievable milestones that motivate teams toward long-term success.
Q4: How can companies replace fear with trust?
By training leaders to coach, not command. Continuous improvement succeeds only when employees feel supported.
Q5: What is the Facade of Excellence?
It’s a false appearance of success caused by manipulated metrics. Real excellence comes from transparent data and steady improvement.
Q6: Where can I learn Lean and Six Sigma online?
You can explore online certifications at SixSigmaDSI.com.
View all episodes
By Kevin Clay, Master Black BeltFear and Loathing: The Danger of Numerical Goals
In this episode of the Why They Fail Podcast, we take on one of the biggest traps in modern management: the obsession with numerical goals.
Dr. W. Edwards Deming warned against this decades ago in his famous Point 11, which calls for the elimination of management by objectives. Today, those warnings still apply.
Our guest is John Dyer, bestselling author of The Facade of Excellence and a Master Black Belt who spent decades at General Electric and Ingersoll Rand.
John has also written many articles for IndustryWeek magazine, which you can read here:
https://www.industryweek.com/home/contact/22028785/john-dyer
He also hosts the Behind the Curtain: Adventures in Continuous Improvement podcast on IndustryWeek:
https://www.industryweek.com/podcasts/behind-the-curtain
John explains how the focus on hitting numbers breeds fear and manipulation instead of real improvement. Together, we break down how to fix the system, not the people, and how real leadership drives long term excellence.
The Root Cause of Failure: Management by Objectives
Deming’s 14 Points shaped the foundation of modern quality management. Yet, the most misunderstood remains his call to end management by objectives.
When leaders impose numerical targets without improving the system or providing the right tools, they set teams up to fail. It creates a culture of blame and fear, the very opposite of trust and innovation.
John shared powerful examples. In one case, a company proudly reported a 99% first-pass yield, while customer returns hit 20%. The numbers looked good, but the truth was hidden. This Facade of Excellence proves why chasing targets over truth destroys credibility and improvement.
Learn more about Lean and Six Sigma here
Substituting Leadership for Numerical Goals
So, what replaces management by numbers? Leadership.
Deming’s Point 11 calls for leaders who coach instead of command. A good system helps good people succeed. A bad system defeats even the most skilled team.
John emphasized that unrealistic goals do more harm than good. Setting unreachable targets, like jumping from 90% quality to 99% overnight, only frustrates teams and drives shortcuts.
Instead, focus on leading improvement, not demanding results. Six Sigma Black Belt certification teaches this principle in depth.
The Power of Celebration Points
Instead of rigid objectives, John promotes Celebration Points - small, achievable wins that create momentum and pride.
For instance, a team aiming for 100% quality could celebrate at 92%, then 94%, then 97%. These steps build confidence and enthusiasm.
Continuous improvement isn’t about perfection overnight. It’s about steady progress and consistent leadership support.
This mindset reflects the true spirit of Kaizen, where every improvement, no matter how small , matters.
The Hidden Barrier: Managerial Fear
One of the most surprising insights John shared was that the biggest barrier to lasting change isn’t technical - it’s emotional.
Middle managers often fear becoming irrelevant when problems disappear. When continuous improvement eliminates “fires,” some managers feel their value vanishes.
The solution? Redefine leadership. Great managers coach, mentor, and build systems that win without constant crisis. They’re not firefighters. They’re enablers of excellence.
Key Takeaways
✅ Deming’s Point 11 shows why management by objectives fails and breeds fear.
✅ Fix processes, not people. Systems determine success.
✅ Replace rigid goals with celebration points to boost morale.
✅ Managerial fear can block progress—turn managers into mentors.
✅ Data manipulation creates a false Facade of Excellence that hides real issues.
Free Resource
📘 Get your free copy of "Why They Fail … and the Simple Key to Success" by Kevin Clay.
Learn why 90% of continuous improvement efforts collapse within 18 months and how to build a sustainable system that lasts.
Download your free copy here.
About the Guest
John Dyer is a Master Black Belt, consultant, and author of The Facade of Excellence. His work blends Deming’s timeless wisdom with today’s business realities. Learn more about his insights at johndyergroup.com.
About Six Sigma Development Solutions, Inc.
This episode is sponsored by Six Sigma Development Solutions, Inc. (SSDSI) — delivering Operational Excellence Around the Globe.
SSDSI is an IASSC Accredited Training Organization (ATO) that has certified over 4,000 professionals and helped 100+ organizations in 52 countries achieve more than $100M in documented savings.
Explore our certification programs:
Contact us at [email protected] or call 866-922-6566.
Learn more at sixsigmadsi.com.
Podcast Chapters
00:00 - Introduction: The Goal of 100% Excellence
01:04 - Guest Intro: John Dyer, Author of The Facade of Excellence
02:59 - “Who Do We Need to Fire?” – The Wrong Question
04:25 - Fixing the Process, Not the People
07:38 - Deming’s Point 11 and Management by Objectives
12:35 - Setting Realistic Goals that Motivate
15:58 - Celebration Points and the Power of Progress
19:48 - Creating Enthusiastic Productivity
23:54 - Manipulated Metrics and the Facade of Excellence
26:51 - Overcoming Managerial Fear and Building a Coaching Culture
FAQ: Fear and Loathing – The Danger of Numerical Goals
Q1: What is Deming’s Point 11?
Deming’s Point 11 is about eliminating management by numerical objectives and replacing it with leadership that builds trust and system-wide improvement.
Q2: Why does management by objectives fail?
It creates fear. Employees focus on hitting numbers instead of fixing the root cause of problems.
Q3: What are Celebration Points?
Celebration Points are small, achievable milestones that motivate teams toward long-term success.
Q4: How can companies replace fear with trust?
By training leaders to coach, not command. Continuous improvement succeeds only when employees feel supported.
Q5: What is the Facade of Excellence?
It’s a false appearance of success caused by manipulated metrics. Real excellence comes from transparent data and steady improvement.
Q6: Where can I learn Lean and Six Sigma online?
You can explore online certifications at SixSigmaDSI.com.