Ben and Michelle close the year by speaking with Olesja Hazenbiller and Kaija Kurki-Suonio of AO Spine, who are important driving forces behind RECODE-DCM. They tell us about this important model for making progress in an area of medicine. We also hear from the project's expert in Knowledge Translation, Lisa Petermann, about the importance of this ongoing aspect of the work. Wishing everyone a great holiday period, wherever you are. Thank you for listening this year!