Ismay travels across Nashville to the Station Inn to meet with legendary folk singer-songwriter Mary Gauthier. This episode of Finding Lucinda is different from those in the past – rather than interviewing a character from Lucinda Williams' history, Ismay speaks to Mary because of their shared experiences as fans and devotees of Lucinda's music. Mary reveals that her most well known song was in fact directly derived from techniques Lucinda uses in her songwriting. This conversation turns out to be incredibly revelatory, as wisdom Mary imparts allows Ismay to discover that what they initially thought this journey was all about may in fact be completely upended. 

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Finding Lucinda is out September 9th 2025

Pre-order on Apple TV: https://tv.apple.com/us/movie/finding-lucinda/umc.cmc.ims4vnyo6ibk1v6hgmqhta8d

www.findinglucinda.com

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Finding Lucinda is Distributed by The Bluegrass Situation

Produced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records LLC

Music by ISMAY

Artwork by Avery Hellman

Nashville Recording: Recorded at The Station Inn 

Sound Recordist: Rodrigo Nino

Producer: Liz McBee

Director: Joel Fendelman

Co-Director & Cinematographer: Rose Bush

Special thanks to: Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Jonathan McHugh, Sydney Lane, Don Fierro, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams & Tom Overby

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Saved By a Song by Mary Gauthier

Don’t Tell Anybody the Secrets I Told You by Lucinda Williams

https://stationinn.com/information/

https://acousticguitar.com/mary-gauthier-helps-veterans-turn-stories-into-songs-on-rifles-and-rosary-beads/

https://folkworks.org/article/folkworks-article-mary-gauthier/

Ismay drives to Nashville to share the incredible never-before-heard tape they found during their road trip journey with friend Buddy Miller. He has been known to have contributed essential parts to Lucinda's breakthrough, 'Car Wheels On A Gravel Road.' Ismay reviews the commonly told story about the making of this record, how fraught it was, and realizes that there actually is important history to uncover – history that reveals a more interesting and unexpected truth about why this record was so challenging to make. Ismay discusses Lucinda's history in L.A., where she met a critical collaborator Gurf Morlix and subsequently made her albums 'Sweet Old World' and 'Lucinda Williams.'

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Finding Lucinda is Distributed by The Bluegrass Situation

Produced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records LLC

Music by ISMAY

Artwork by Avery Hellman

Nashville Recording —

Recorded at Hummingbird Hill Studio

Sound Recordist: Rodrigo Nino

Producer: Liz McBee

Director: Joel Fendelman

Co-Director & Cinematographer: Rose Bush

Special thanks to: Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Jonathan McHugh, Sydney Lane, Don Fierro, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams & Tom Overby

references:

Working with Lucinda Williams - Gurf Morlix from Otis Gibbs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_x-fBaD2cw

The Working Songwriter podcast - Lucinda Williams from Joe Pug: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ7ONKzCeFI&t=2372s

https://web.archive.org/web/20160603134220/http://nodepression.com/article/buddy-miller-disquisition-centrality-love-and-faith-music-buddy-miller-and-several-other

http://famouspalomino.com/

https://historicplacesla.lacity.org/report/685475f1-055c-4096-bcdf-8ae69f32cb71

https://trouserpress.com/reviews/lucinda-williams/

Don’t Tell Anybody the Secrets I Told You by Lucinda Williams

In the most exciting moment of the Finding Lucinda road trip thus far, Ismay hears from interviewee Wolf Stephenson that there is some archival material he wants to share from the concrete tape vault. After sitting on the shelf for 40 years, Wolf has finally brought three boxes down to review. He finds that there is something mysterious and unexpected in the third box, so Wolf and Ismay try to get to the bottom of what in the world this mystery box contains. This piece of never-before-heard material gives Ismay insight into Lucinda's musical development and the choices she made as a creative person. But most importantly, discovering this treasure gives Ismay an opportunity to see themself in a way they never have before.

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Finding Lucinda is Distributed by The Bluegrass Situation

Produced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records LLC

Music by ISMAY

Artwork by Avery Hellman

Jackson Recording —

Recorded at Malaco Studios

Sound Recordist: Rodrigo Nino

Producer: Liz McBee

Director: Joel Fendelman

Co-Director & Cinematographer: Rose Bush

Special thanks to: Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Don Fierro, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams & Tom Overby

references:

https://www.malaco.com/malaco-continues-to-expand-eights-years-post-tornado-destruction/

http://www.andersonfairthemovie.com/

Ismay travels from Texas to Mississippi, to visit the studio where Lucinda Williams made her first record. There, Ismay interviews Wolf Stephenson, who was the engineer that day in 1978, to learn about what happened during the session and whether Lucinda was confident through that initial challenge of recording. They discuss what results when artists get rejected and what keeps certain artists moving forward in spite of various roadblocks. Stephenson oversaw the development of Malaco Records, which produced R&B, soul, and gospel hits. Elsewhere in the episode, Ismay also takes time to visit the stretch of country between Austin, Texas and Jackson, Mississippi in order to understand the landscape that informed Lucinda's work.

Interested in sponsoring us? Contact BGS: https://bit.ly/sponsorBGSpods

credits:

Finding Lucinda is Distributed by The Bluegrass Situation

Produced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records LLC

Music by ISMAY

Artwork by Avery Hellman

Jackson Recording —

Recorded at Malaco Studios

Sound Recordist: Rodrigo Nino

Producer: Liz McBee

Director: Joel Fendelman

Co-Director & Cinematographer: Rose Bush

Special thanks to: Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Don Fierro, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams & Tom Overby

references:

https://earlyblues.org/blues-locations-mississippi-jackson/ 

https://www.malaco.com/studios/

Don’t Tell Anybody the Secrets I Told You by Lucinda Williams

https://www.clarionledger.com/story/life/intune/2016/05/05/lucinda-williams-recorded-1st-album-jackson/83941954/

https://web.archive.org/web/20160319194923/http://www.knowla.org/entry/1962/

Ismay travels to Anderson Fair in Houston, Texas, a famed music venue with a unique history that includes legends like Lyle Lovett and Nanci Griffith. Ismay tracked down a special character from Lucinda's early career, who had largely been missing from the national music scene since the '70s. There they discover how artists' paths diverge and contemplate what we're all looking for when we seek out careers in music.

Interested in sponsoring us? Contact BGS: https://bit.ly/sponsorBGSpods

credits:

Finding Lucinda is Distributed by The Bluegrass Situation

Produced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records LLC

Music by ISMAY

Artwork by Avery Hellman

Houston Recording —

Recorded at Anderson Fair

Sound Recordist: Rodrigo Nino

Producer: Liz McBee

Director: Joel Fendelman

Co-Director & Cinematographer: Rose Bush

Special thanks to: Tim Leatherwood, Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Don Fierro, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams & Tom Overby

References:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://repository.rice.edu/bitstreams/f46d1776-6b7d-4bba-9e16-f4d70234d003/download&ved=2ahUKEwja_fX6yvmNAxVJs1YBHUUaIyMQFnoECBcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1hKyfGMJRk2_0t4lVFp_DM

https://folkways.si.edu/folkways-records/smithsonian

http://www.andersonfairthemovie.com/

https://folklife.si.edu/legacy-honorees/moses-asch/smithsonian

Don’t Tell Anybody the Secrets I Told You by Lucinda Williams

https://www.villagevoice.com/interview-lucinda-williams-on-getting-paid-250-for-her-first-record-mad-men-and-her-favorite-place-in-new-york-city/

“Lyle Lovett Goes Back to His Beginnings” The Boston Globe, November 4th 2012

“Griffith Honors Songs that Shaped Her Career” The San Francisco Examiner, July 19th 1998

Ismay uncovers a fascinating seldom heard recording of Lucinda from a radio show in 1981, leading them down a path to discover the musical influences in Lucinda's early Life. Meeting with members of the Grammy Award Winning band Los Texmaniacs, Ismay goes out on a limb and seeks to recreate that radio session in the famed Cactus Cafe.

Credits:

Distributed by The Bluegrass Situation

Produced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records LLC

Music by ISMAY

Final song by Los Cenzontles Cultural Academy https://www.loscenzontles.com/

“Libro Abierto (ft. Flaco Jimenez)”

Artwork by Avery Hellman

Austin Recording —

Recorded at The Cactus Cafe

Sound Recordist: Rodrigo Nino

Producer: Liz McBee

Director: Joel Fendelman

Co-Director & Cinematographer: Rose Bush

Special thanks to: Eugene Rodriguez, Matt Bizer, Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Don Fierro, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams & Tom Overby

Interested in sponsoring us? Contact BGS: https://bit.ly/sponsorBGSpods

references

https://www.folkstreams.net/films/it-s-a-mean-old-world

https://jamescalemine.com/reverend-pearly-brown-youre-gonna-need-that-pure-religion/

https://www.austinchronicle.com/daily/music/2013-09-13/rough-trade-talk-with-lucinda-williams/

https://pitchfork.com/features/5-10-15-20/lucinda-williams-on-the-music-that-made-her/

Don’t Tell Anybody the Secrets I Told You by Lucinda Williams 

Ismay visits cornerstone music venue The Hole in the Wall in Austin to interview Charlie Sexton, producer and songwriter who's best known as a guitarist for Bob Dylan. They discuss Charlie and Lucinda's first gig together in 1979 when he was just a kid. Charlie shares insights into Lucinda's remarkable songwriting, as well as the emotional struggles musicians face with self doubt.

Credits:

Distributed by The Bluegrass Situation

Produced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records LLC

Music by ISMAY

Sundays written by Lucinda Williams

Greenville courtesy of Universal, Warner Chappell

Artwork by Avery Hellman

Music Supervisor Jonathan McHugh

Austin Recording --

Recorded at The Hole in the Wall

Sound recordist: Rodrigo Nino

Producer: Liz McBee

Director: Joel Fendelman

Co-Director: Rose Bush

Special thanks to: Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Don Fierro, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams & Tom Overby

references:

Charlie Sexton: Too Many Ways to Fall By Jason Crouch

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://docs.gato.txst.edu/56065/19_4_Sexton_Jason-Crouch.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiMsv2Uu7eMAxWRMlkFHVERNCMQFnoECEAQAQ&usg=AOvVaw02BTIq00dCCo9hgxH7IGi6

Ink in the Grooves by Flores Doore

Don’t Tell Anybody the Secrets I Told You by Lucinda Williams

https://delawareliberal.net/2021/10/27/song-of-the-day-10-27-lucinda-williams-2-kool-2-be-4-gotten/

https://www.upress.state.ms.us/Books/J/Juke-Joint

https://michaelcorcoran.substack.com/p/clubland-paradise-rome-inn

Ismay arrives in Austin, Texas to dig through the Collections Deposit Library at the University of Texas in order to understand the life of Lucinda Williams' father, Miller. A poet and teacher, Miller Williams overcame setbacks to become a prominent writer. Ismay discovers his personal writings, letters, and photographs, highlighting his mentorship and the artistic community that shaped Lucinda's career.

Credits:

Distributed by The Bluegrass Situation

Produced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records LLC

Music by ISMAY

Artwork by Avery Hellman

Austin Recording --

Recorded at The Collections Deposit Library at UT Austin, with records from The Harry Ransom Center

Sound recordist: Rodrigo Nino

Producer: Liz McBee

Director: Joel Fendelman

Co-Director: Rose Bush

The Caterpillar and Of History and Hope appear courtesy of Rebecca Jordan Williams

Special thanks to: Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Jonathan McHugh, Jacqueline Sabec, Lucinda Williams & Tom Overby

references:

Don't Tell Anybody the Secrets I Told You by Lucinda Williams

Living on the Surface, New and Selected Poems by Miller Williams

The Ways We Touch, Poems by Miller Williams

Making a Poem: Some Thoughts about Poetry and the People Who Write It

https://oxfordamerican.org/web-only/the-kinship-is-real

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/miller-williams

https://encyclopediaofarkansas.net/entries/southern-tenant-farmers-union-35/

https://www.jstor.org/stable/26671158

https://poets.org/poet/miller-williams

https://muse.jhu.edu/article/740832

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPIgETlWaas

https://poets.org/inaugural-poems-history

https://news.uark.edu/articles/26213/miller-williams-remembered-as-poet-educator-co-founder-of-university-of-arkansas-press

https://www.rrr.org.au/explore/news-articles/things-you-possibly-didnt-know-about-lucinda-williams

https://www.swtimes.com/story/opinion/2016/11/16/a-poetically-proud-published-poet/24533470007/

Interested in sponsoring us? Contact BGS: https://bit.ly/sponsorBGSpods 

As we join the story, Ismay has been living and working on their family ranch for almost a decade – and they're looking for change. For several years the independent singer-songwriter has been playing in a Lucinda Williams tribute band and writing their own music. An opportunity to record an album sparks a new and different idea: to instead embark on a road trip to uncover the early days of Lucinda's music career and, hopefully, find a way forward creatively. However, they are plagued by self doubt about whether pursuing music can still be worthwhile for them. But in spite of this uncertainty, Ismay dives into research to see where a journey across the country – and further into the life and music of Lucinda – could lead.

Credits:

Distributed by The Bluegrass Situation

Produced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records LLC

Music by ISMAY and The Lake Charlatans

Artwork by Avery Hellman

Guests: Mary Gauthier, Wolf Stephenson, John Grimaudo, Charlie Sexton

Special thanks to: Joel Fendelman, Liz McBee, Rose Bush, Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Jonathan McHugh, Jacqueline Sabec, Lucinda Williams & Tom Overby

Interested in sponsoring us? Contact BGS: https://bit.ly/sponsorBGSpods 

Finding Lucinda follows a young singer-songwriter on a road trip of self discovery to trace the roots of their musical hero Lucinda Williams. Amidst self-doubt and uncertainty, ISMAY sets out from the family ranch in Northern California and travels to Texas, Louisiana and Tennessee. There ISMAY meets Lucinda’s early collaborators, digs through the archives to uncover hidden treasures, and visits the studios and venues where Lucinda got her start. Interviews include Charlie Sexton, Buddy Miller, and Mary Gauthier. Finding Lucinda is ultimately a story about not knowing whether you have what it takes to be the artist you want to be, and looking for answers on how to move forward anyways. It’s about finding a small way to be more like your hero.

Season 1 ‘Finding Lucinda’ is a deep dive into the life and work of Lucinda Williams. Using archival material and interviews from the making of the documentary ‘Finding Lucinda’ as well as analysis from other artists, this season seeks to understand how Lucinda Williams became the iconic songwriter she is today with a focus on her early years.

Interested in sponsoring us? Contact BGS: https://bit.ly/sponsorBGSpods