In this episode of the podcast, Ismay sits down with 'Finding Lucinda' director Joel Fendelman. They discuss how Joel approached the making of the documentary and concepts like developing the language of a film to build trust with the audience, the artist’s experience of not being where you thought you should be a certain age – including how to constructively confront that – and the idea of trusting others in collaborations. They also talk about how there is overlap in the craft of filmmaking and music-making, including ideas like contrasts and consistency. 

With roots in Miami, Austin, and New York City, Fendelman has written, produced, and directed a number of award-winning narrative and documentary films. An award-winning filmmaker, he is dedicated to telling stories that reveal the underlying connections between us all. His documentary 'Man on Fire' received an IDA Documentary Award and premiered nationally on PBS’s Independent Lens (2018–19 season). He went on to direct 'North Putnam,' which won the Indiana Spotlight Award at the Heartland International Film Festival. In 2016, his short film 'Game Night' premiered at the Tribeca Film Festival and won Best Super Short at the Savannah Film Festival. His second narrative feature, 'Remittance,' earned multiple festival awards, including Best Actress and Best Screenplay at the Brooklyn Film Festival, and is distributed worldwide. His debut feature, 'David' (2011), won the Ecumenical Prize at the Montreal World Film Festival. His most recent short film, 'The Spiritual Advisor,' is premiering at DOC NYC 2025 and is being distributed by Rolling Stone Films.

Soundtrack out 11/7/25

CD, Vinyl and Download: https://ismay.bandcamp.com/album/finding-lucinda-music-from-the-documentary

Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/artist/ismay/1340597459

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/77sFDwywxshHFqKu6rVXIp?si=xlKBJrMMRFyvU0HYQ_F18Q

Tickets to upcoming screenings in Boston, Brooklyn, Hudson NY, Providence RI and Chicago at www.findinglucinda.com

Watch Finding Lucinda online: https://www.freestyledigitalmedia.tv/film/finding-lucinda/

credits:

Finding Lucinda is Distributed by The Bluegrass Situation

Produced, recorded and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records LLC

Music by ISMAY

Special thanks to: Rose Bush, Liz McBee, Mick Hellman, Jonathan McHugh, Sydney Lane, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams & Tom Overby

After the conclusion of their journey, Ismay tours the nation with screenings of 'Finding Lucinda,' inviting local artists to play Lucinda Williams songs in the round. Following a show at Chico Women's Club in California, Ismay interviews Chuck Prophet, a celebrated musician who co-produced the film. The pair discuss the origins of the project, what surprised them about making this documentary, and how Lucinda has influenced their songwriting and careers. They also discuss Chuck's time opening for Lucinda in the early 2000s. 

credits:

Finding Lucinda is Distributed by The Bluegrass Situation

Produced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records LLC

Music by ISMAY

Nashville Recording —

Recorded at The Room & Board Studio

Sound Recordist: Rodrigo Nino

Producer: Liz McBee

Director: Joel Fendelman

Co-Director & Cinematographer: Rose Bush

Special thanks to: Siobhan Maher Kennedy, Ray Kennedy, Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Jonathan McHugh, Sydney Lane, Don Fierro, Rebecca Jordan Williams, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams & Tom Overby

references:

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/articles/69003/the-long-goodbye

Making a Poem by Miller Williams

For the finale of their road trip, Ismay finally gets to meet the center of this entire narrative – Lucinda Williams. Their goal is seeking guidance about what to do with their self doubt. Ismay discovers that Lucinda had one major difference in her origin story that is the key to understanding why she never gave up herself. Ismay and Lucinda also discuss items from the archives that Ismay has gathered along their route to Nashville. Ismay performs the song, "Spin," from the archives for her and is surprised by Lucinda's reaction.

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Finding Lucinda is out now! Watch on Apple TV:

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Interested in sponsoring us? Contact BGS: https://bit.ly/sponsorbgspods

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credits:

Finding Lucinda is Distributed by The Bluegrass Situation

Produced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records LLC

Music by ISMAY

Nashville Recording —

Recorded at The Room & Board Studio

Sound Recordist: Rodrigo Nino

Producer: Liz McBee

Director: Joel Fendelman

Co-Director & Cinematographer: Rose Bush

Special thanks to: Siobhan Maher Kennedy, Ray Kennedy, Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Jonathan McHugh, Sydney Lane, Don Fierro, Rebecca Jordan Williams, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams & Tom Overby

references:

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/articles/69003/the-long-goodbye

Making a Poem by Miller Williams

Ismay wakes up the day after interviewing Mary Gauthier ready to attend a live performance by Lucinda Williams at the Ryman Auditorium. In order to finish out their journey, Ismay hopes to interview Lucinda right before her show and find a conclusion to their road trip. However, it turns out that due to unforeseen circumstances the interview is no longer possible. So, Ismay attends the show anyway and has to make a decision about whether to continue following Lucinda or to move forward. Plus, they meet up with engineer and producer for 'Car Wheels On A Gravel Road,' Ray Kennedy.

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Finding Lucinda is out September 9th, 2025

Pre-order on Apple TV: https://tv.apple.com/us/movie/finding-lucinda/umc.cmc.ims4vnyo6ibk1v6hgmqhta8d

https://www.findinglucindafilm.com/

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Interested in sponsoring us? Contact BGS: https://bit.ly/SponsorBGSPods

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Credits:

Finding Lucinda is Distributed by The Bluegrass Situation

Produced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records LLC

Music by ISMAY

Artwork by Avery Hellman

Nashville Recording —

Recorded at Room and Board Studio

Sound Recordist: Rodrigo Nino

Producer: Liz McBee

Director: Joel Fendelman

Co-Director & Cinematographer: Rose Bush

Special thanks to: Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Jonathan McHugh, Sydney Lane, Don Fierro, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams & Tom Overby

References:

https://liverpoolmusiccity.com/2025/04/15/from-bootle-to-nashville-the-remarkable-journey-of-siobhan-maher-kennedy/

https://www.raykennedyproducer.com/room-board-studio

Ismay travels across Nashville to the Station Inn to meet with legendary folk singer-songwriter Mary Gauthier. This episode of Finding Lucinda is different from those in the past – rather than interviewing a character from Lucinda Williams' history, Ismay speaks to Mary because of their shared experiences as fans and devotees of Lucinda's music. Mary reveals that her most well known song was in fact directly derived from techniques Lucinda uses in her songwriting. This conversation turns out to be incredibly revelatory, as wisdom Mary imparts allows Ismay to discover that what they initially thought this journey was all about may in fact be completely upended. 

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Finding Lucinda is out September 9th 2025

Pre-order on Apple TV: https://tv.apple.com/us/movie/finding-lucinda/umc.cmc.ims4vnyo6ibk1v6hgmqhta8d

www.findinglucinda.com

----------------------------

Interested in sponsoring us? Contact BGS: https://bit.ly/SponsorBGSPods

----------------------------

Finding Lucinda is Distributed by The Bluegrass Situation

Produced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records LLC

Music by ISMAY

Artwork by Avery Hellman

Nashville Recording: Recorded at The Station Inn 

Sound Recordist: Rodrigo Nino

Producer: Liz McBee

Director: Joel Fendelman

Co-Director & Cinematographer: Rose Bush

Special thanks to: Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Jonathan McHugh, Sydney Lane, Don Fierro, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams & Tom Overby

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Saved By a Song by Mary Gauthier

Don’t Tell Anybody the Secrets I Told You by Lucinda Williams

https://stationinn.com/information/

https://acousticguitar.com/mary-gauthier-helps-veterans-turn-stories-into-songs-on-rifles-and-rosary-beads/

https://folkworks.org/article/folkworks-article-mary-gauthier/

Ismay drives to Nashville to share the incredible never-before-heard tape they found during their road trip journey with friend Buddy Miller. He has been known to have contributed essential parts to Lucinda's breakthrough, 'Car Wheels On A Gravel Road.' Ismay reviews the commonly told story about the making of this record, how fraught it was, and realizes that there actually is important history to uncover – history that reveals a more interesting and unexpected truth about why this record was so challenging to make. Ismay discusses Lucinda's history in L.A., where she met a critical collaborator Gurf Morlix and subsequently made her albums 'Sweet Old World' and 'Lucinda Williams.'

Interested in sponsoring us? Contact BGS: https://bit.ly/SponsorBGSPods

Finding Lucinda is Distributed by The Bluegrass Situation

Produced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records LLC

Music by ISMAY

Artwork by Avery Hellman

Nashville Recording —

Recorded at Hummingbird Hill Studio

Sound Recordist: Rodrigo Nino

Producer: Liz McBee

Director: Joel Fendelman

Co-Director & Cinematographer: Rose Bush

Special thanks to: Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Jonathan McHugh, Sydney Lane, Don Fierro, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams & Tom Overby

references:

Working with Lucinda Williams - Gurf Morlix from Otis Gibbs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_x-fBaD2cw

The Working Songwriter podcast - Lucinda Williams from Joe Pug: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ7ONKzCeFI&t=2372s

https://web.archive.org/web/20160603134220/http://nodepression.com/article/buddy-miller-disquisition-centrality-love-and-faith-music-buddy-miller-and-several-other

http://famouspalomino.com/

https://historicplacesla.lacity.org/report/685475f1-055c-4096-bcdf-8ae69f32cb71

https://trouserpress.com/reviews/lucinda-williams/

Don’t Tell Anybody the Secrets I Told You by Lucinda Williams

In the most exciting moment of the Finding Lucinda road trip thus far, Ismay hears from interviewee Wolf Stephenson that there is some archival material he wants to share from the concrete tape vault. After sitting on the shelf for 40 years, Wolf has finally brought three boxes down to review. He finds that there is something mysterious and unexpected in the third box, so Wolf and Ismay try to get to the bottom of what in the world this mystery box contains. This piece of never-before-heard material gives Ismay insight into Lucinda's musical development and the choices she made as a creative person. But most importantly, discovering this treasure gives Ismay an opportunity to see themself in a way they never have before.

Interested in sponsoring us? Contact BGS: https://bit,ly/SponsorBGSpods

Finding Lucinda is Distributed by The Bluegrass Situation

Produced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records LLC

Music by ISMAY

Artwork by Avery Hellman

Jackson Recording —

Recorded at Malaco Studios

Sound Recordist: Rodrigo Nino

Producer: Liz McBee

Director: Joel Fendelman

Co-Director & Cinematographer: Rose Bush

Special thanks to: Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Don Fierro, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams & Tom Overby

references:

https://www.malaco.com/malaco-continues-to-expand-eights-years-post-tornado-destruction/

http://www.andersonfairthemovie.com/

Ismay travels from Texas to Mississippi, to visit the studio where Lucinda Williams made her first record. There, Ismay interviews Wolf Stephenson, who was the engineer that day in 1978, to learn about what happened during the session and whether Lucinda was confident through that initial challenge of recording. They discuss what results when artists get rejected and what keeps certain artists moving forward in spite of various roadblocks. Stephenson oversaw the development of Malaco Records, which produced R&B, soul, and gospel hits. Elsewhere in the episode, Ismay also takes time to visit the stretch of country between Austin, Texas and Jackson, Mississippi in order to understand the landscape that informed Lucinda's work.

Interested in sponsoring us? Contact BGS: https://bit.ly/sponsorBGSpods

credits:

Finding Lucinda is Distributed by The Bluegrass Situation

Produced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records LLC

Music by ISMAY

Artwork by Avery Hellman

Jackson Recording —

Recorded at Malaco Studios

Sound Recordist: Rodrigo Nino

Producer: Liz McBee

Director: Joel Fendelman

Co-Director & Cinematographer: Rose Bush

Special thanks to: Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Don Fierro, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams & Tom Overby

references:

https://earlyblues.org/blues-locations-mississippi-jackson/ 

https://www.malaco.com/studios/

Don’t Tell Anybody the Secrets I Told You by Lucinda Williams

https://www.clarionledger.com/story/life/intune/2016/05/05/lucinda-williams-recorded-1st-album-jackson/83941954/

https://web.archive.org/web/20160319194923/http://www.knowla.org/entry/1962/

Ismay travels to Anderson Fair in Houston, Texas, a famed music venue with a unique history that includes legends like Lyle Lovett and Nanci Griffith. Ismay tracked down a special character from Lucinda's early career, who had largely been missing from the national music scene since the '70s. There they discover how artists' paths diverge and contemplate what we're all looking for when we seek out careers in music.

Interested in sponsoring us? Contact BGS: https://bit.ly/sponsorBGSpods

credits:

Finding Lucinda is Distributed by The Bluegrass Situation

Produced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records LLC

Music by ISMAY

Artwork by Avery Hellman

Houston Recording —

Recorded at Anderson Fair

Sound Recordist: Rodrigo Nino

Producer: Liz McBee

Director: Joel Fendelman

Co-Director & Cinematographer: Rose Bush

Special thanks to: Tim Leatherwood, Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Don Fierro, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams & Tom Overby

References:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://repository.rice.edu/bitstreams/f46d1776-6b7d-4bba-9e16-f4d70234d003/download&ved=2ahUKEwja_fX6yvmNAxVJs1YBHUUaIyMQFnoECBcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1hKyfGMJRk2_0t4lVFp_DM

https://folkways.si.edu/folkways-records/smithsonian

http://www.andersonfairthemovie.com/

https://folklife.si.edu/legacy-honorees/moses-asch/smithsonian

Don’t Tell Anybody the Secrets I Told You by Lucinda Williams

https://www.villagevoice.com/interview-lucinda-williams-on-getting-paid-250-for-her-first-record-mad-men-and-her-favorite-place-in-new-york-city/

“Lyle Lovett Goes Back to His Beginnings” The Boston Globe, November 4th 2012

“Griffith Honors Songs that Shaped Her Career” The San Francisco Examiner, July 19th 1998

Ismay uncovers a fascinating seldom heard recording of Lucinda from a radio show in 1981, leading them down a path to discover the musical influences in Lucinda's early Life. Meeting with members of the Grammy Award Winning band Los Texmaniacs, Ismay goes out on a limb and seeks to recreate that radio session in the famed Cactus Cafe.

Credits:

Distributed by The Bluegrass Situation

Produced and mixed by Avery Hellman for Neanderthal Records LLC

Music by ISMAY

Final song by Los Cenzontles Cultural Academy https://www.loscenzontles.com/

“Libro Abierto (ft. Flaco Jimenez)”

Artwork by Avery Hellman

Austin Recording —

Recorded at The Cactus Cafe

Sound Recordist: Rodrigo Nino

Producer: Liz McBee

Director: Joel Fendelman

Co-Director & Cinematographer: Rose Bush

Special thanks to: Eugene Rodriguez, Matt Bizer, Mick Hellman, Chuck Prophet, Don Fierro, Jacqueline Sabec, Rosemary Carroll, Lucinda Williams & Tom Overby

Interested in sponsoring us? Contact BGS: https://bit.ly/sponsorBGSpods

references

https://www.folkstreams.net/films/it-s-a-mean-old-world

https://jamescalemine.com/reverend-pearly-brown-youre-gonna-need-that-pure-religion/

https://www.austinchronicle.com/daily/music/2013-09-13/rough-trade-talk-with-lucinda-williams/

https://pitchfork.com/features/5-10-15-20/lucinda-williams-on-the-music-that-made-her/

Don’t Tell Anybody the Secrets I Told You by Lucinda Williams