What does it really take to thrive as an entrepreneur in today’s challenging real estate market? In this episode, we sit down with Lilian Chen, founder of Proptimal, the 10X real estate analyst platform for lean teams.

Lilian’s experience spans multifamily, commercial, and hospitality deals, having advised on over $2B in transactions, including $100M+ acquisitions and major projects like the Iovance Biotherapeutics HQ in Philadelphia. She’s worked with 200+ real estate firms, teaches 300+ high-net-worth investors how to underwrite and structure deals, and has guest lectured at Oxford’s Saïd Business School.

We trace her journey from corporate financial analyst to digital nomad entrepreneur, building her business while traveling to 40+ countries. Lilian shares why entrepreneurship isn’t for everyone, the courage it takes to be disliked, and how persistence (“If you don’t quit, you can’t fail”) fuels success.

We also dive into the evolution of her business, from offering financial analysis services to building software that democratizes sophisticated underwriting tools, giving everyday developers and investors access to resources usually reserved for large institutional teams.

Whether you’re a seasoned real estate pro or just beginning to explore entrepreneurship, this episode delivers both inspiration and actionable insights on building confidence, prioritizing what truly matters, and scaling without burning out.

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What happens when the security blanket of a 20-year career gets ripped away in an instant? For Stephen Predmore, a seasoned engineer in the automotive industry, that shocking moment became the catalyst for an extraordinary transformation in his financial future.

Stephen's journey begins with a gut punch—his entire department walked out after two decades of service, shattering the illusion of job security despite working on cutting-edge electric vehicle technology. While devastating, this moment accelerated a path he'd already been exploring through real estate investment education.

Like many newcomers, Stephen started with single-family homes in Baltimore, purchasing properties for around $65,000 with modest renovations. These investments crushed the coveted 1% rule on paper, but reality struck hard during COVID when his tenant stopped paying rent. The subsequent six-month eviction process in tenant-friendly Baltimore taught him a crucial lesson: "Just because it works great in a spreadsheet doesn't mean it works well in life."

Rather than giving up, Stephen adapted brilliantly. He first pivoted to Section 8 housing for more reliable government-subsidized rent payments, then gradually transitioned to larger multifamily deals. His approach was methodical—joining real estate masterminds, becoming a limited partner in syndication deals to learn the mechanics, and eventually taking more active roles in joint ventures.

Perhaps most fascinating is how Stephen funded his first investment: by taking a loan against his 401(k)—not a withdrawal with penalties, but a strategic loan against 50% of the value. "Your first deal is always the hardest," he notes. "Once you do your first deal, the juices start flowing."

Today, Stephen maintains his W2 engineering job while running a side handyman business through TaskRabbit, channeling all those earnings directly into his next real estate investment. His portfolio spans seven syndication deals across multiple states, focusing on "red states" with landlord-friendly legislation.

Stephen's most valuable insight? "It's really the operator, not just the deal." Rather than chasing markets or property types, he emphasizes partnering with trustworthy, experienced operators who have boots on the ground.

Whether you're contemplating your first investment or looking to scale your portfolio, Stephen's journey offers a blueprint for combining W2 security with real estate wealth-building. As he puts it, what separates successful investors is being "willing to get up after they get punched in the face."

Ready to learn more? Visit talbotinvestments.com to explore Stephen's current opportunities and connect with him directly.

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Pricing your products or services is perhaps one of the most emotionally charged decisions entrepreneurs face. In this deeply insightful conversation with Etiosa, CEO of Decision Alpha, we uncover the psychological underpinnings of pricing strategy and how behavioral economics can transform business monetization.

When asked what emotions come up around pricing, business owners typically respond with words like "dread," "anxiety," and "fear." Most admit they're "guesstimating" or "undercharging." This widespread uncertainty highlights the critical need for a science-based approach to pricing. Etiosa's firm helps businesses not only determine optimal price points but also craft compelling narratives that make those prices resonate with potential customers.

Beyond pricing psychology, our conversation explores the fundamental building blocks of entrepreneurial success. Etiosa shares her journey from corporate finance to founding Decision Alpha, emphasizing the power of process goals over outcome goals. Rather than fixating on revenue targets, she tracks activities within her control—how many speaking engagements she secures, how many pricing audits she conducts, how many coffee meetings she arranges with potential clients. This process-oriented approach reduces anxiety while building consistent habits that drive success.

Perhaps most refreshingly, Etiosa champions high-touch business development strategies in an era obsessed with automation and scaling. Her success comes through genuine human connection—coffee dates, one-on-ones, speaking engagements, and offering free pricing audits. These approaches may not scale efficiently, but they build trust no automated outreach can match. "You can't make up care," she notes. "There's just no way to hack that."

Whether you're looking to optimize your business pricing, struggling with entrepreneurial mindset challenges, or preparing to leave your corporate job, this episode delivers actionable insights and psychological frameworks to help you build with intention and confidence. As Etiosa reminds us, success is built grain by grain—seemingly boring consistency that eventually becomes a mountain of achievement.

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What does it take to walk away from a stable job and build a multimillion-dollar lending business? Avery Robertson pulls back the curtain on his remarkable journey from cattle rancher to capital provider in this riveting conversation.

Avery's story begins in the wide-open spaces of one of America's largest cattle ranches before transitioning to agricultural lending. All the while, a passion for real estate investment simmered beneath the surface. Despite years of attending investor meetups and analyzing potential deals, Avery found himself stuck on the sidelines – until a pivotal moment when he realized his lending expertise could become his competitive advantage.

The path wasn't straightforward. There were nail-biting moments of committing to loans before having all the capital lined up, the constant balancing act of finding quality borrowers while raising investor funds, and eventually, that heart-pounding day when he finally quit his stable job. Now, with over $18 million in loans facilitated, mobile home parks in his portfolio, and an RV park under management, Avery shares the unfiltered truth about hard money lending and real estate investment.

What makes this conversation particularly valuable is Avery's transparency about both the challenges and strategies. He reveals his criteria for evaluating borrowers, red flags that make him hesitate, and his approach to structuring deals as win-win scenarios. For those curious about real estate lending, his explanation of the differences between joint venture partnerships and debt funds provides crucial insights rarely discussed in public forums.

Perhaps most compelling is Avery's reflection on the psychological journey – overcoming fear, developing grit, and finding the courage to take that next step forward. As he puts it, "Don't let fear rule you... use it to make sure you're making a wise decision, but jump in." His straightforward advice to take whatever opportunity stands directly in front of you serves as a powerful reminder that entrepreneurial success isn't built through giant leaps but through consistent, determined progress.

Ready to unlock insights from someone who's built a thriving business by helping other entrepreneurs achieve their real estate dreams? Listen now and discover how prayer, persistence, and partnership created a pathway to financial freedom and control.

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What does it really take to build a thriving real estate business while homeschooling kids and maintaining your sanity? Aisha Govani doesn't sugarcoat her answer: "100 hours a week for two years, seven days a week, no days off." But the freedom and future she's building make every grueling moment worthwhile.

Growing up watching her contractor father covered in sawdust and paint, Aisha witnessed firsthand how real estate created generational wealth. After a decade in the nonprofit sector followed by corporate events, she realized building someone else's dream wasn't her destiny. When she met her husband—already a seasoned investor—they plunged headfirst into property management, starting with student rentals and townhomes.

In this riveting conversation, Aisha reveals how she and her business partner Sarah Larby created something unprecedented: a dual marketplace connecting property owners with corporate clients seeking midterm rentals (30+ days). Their business serves everyone from relocating executives to insurance claimants needing temporary housing, centralizing bookings and customer care so owners can remain hands-off while maximizing returns.

The entrepreneurial journey hasn't been easy. Aisha candidly shares her struggle balancing team growth with limited resources, the mindset shifts required when creating something that doesn't exist elsewhere, and why meditation and exercise became non-negotiable daily practices. Her perspective on energy allocation is particularly illuminating: "Every piece of energy I give to something that will not serve me takes away from energy towards something that can."

As she expands into the US market, Aisha remains grounded in what matters most—family, gratitude, and creating solutions rather than forcing customers to adapt to her system. Her parting advice resonates deeply: "You don't know when your last day is going to be, so what are you waiting for? Don't just react to life." Ready to transform your approach to business and life? This episode is your blueprint.

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What does it really take to thrive for three decades in real estate investment? Matt Burk, founder and CEO of VeraVest, pulls back the curtain on his remarkable journey from desperate entrepreneur to seasoned fund manager in this candid conversation that every investor needs to hear.

Starting with just $10,000 borrowed at a staggering 21% interest rate in the early 1990s, Matt transformed necessity into opportunity when he lost his job during the S&L crisis. With refreshing honesty, he recounts his evolution from mortgage broker to fund manager, revealing the strategic pivots that kept him not just surviving but thriving through multiple economic cycles.

The most powerful moments come when Matt addresses the weight of managing other people's money. Despite decades of success, recent market volatility has created challenges, and he speaks with raw emotion about the gut-wrenching experience of losing investor capital. This vulnerability offers a rare glimpse into the personal toll of entrepreneurship that business school simply doesn't prepare you for.

Matt's expertise shines when discussing fund structures, explaining why matching your vehicle to your asset model is critical for success. His breakdown of mortgage pool funds versus direct acquisition funds delivers practical wisdom for anyone considering the leap from deal-by-deal syndication to pooled investments. He cautions that this transition is typically much more difficult than anticipated, as investors in pooled funds are investing more in the manager's credibility than in specific properties.

Now focused on providing fund advisory and administration services through VeraVest, Matt offers valuable insights for emerging fund managers looking to scale their operations. Whether you're a seasoned real estate professional or just starting your investment journey, this episode delivers battle-tested wisdom about resourcefulness, adaptability, and stewardship that only comes from decades in the trenches.

Connect with Matt on LinkedIn or email him at [email protected] to learn how his team can support your investment fund journey. Your capital deserves experienced guidance.

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What does it really take to build generational wealth through real estate? Not flashy strategies or market timing secrets, but something far more foundational – something Jonathan Green learned walking properties as a toddler.

Jonathan's journey begins with childhood weekends spent at yard sales, where his attorney father would scout potential properties while young Jonathan hunted for baseball cards. These seemingly ordinary outings served as masterclasses in opportunity recognition, deal-making, and patience. By age 18, Jonathan had already co-owned dozens of properties through family trusts, positioning him with a knowledge base most investors spend decades trying to acquire.

The episode takes a fascinating turn as Jonathan reveals his professional evolution – from attorney to art professional to education administrator before finding his way back to his real estate roots. His candid discussion about building and subsequently dissolving a 50-person realtor team highlights a crucial insight: knowing when to maintain tight control versus when to delegate is essential for sustainable success.

Perhaps the most valuable takeaway comes when Jonathan addresses why so many new investors fail. "What they're lacking is reps," he explains, cutting through the get-rich-quick mentality permeating today's investment landscape. This emphasis on experience, consistent action, and persistence forms the backbone of his approach.

Jonathan also shares his personal turning point – answering a business call during family dinner and immediately recognizing the need for boundaries. This led to his nine-year daily meditation practice that now grounds his entrepreneurial pursuits and family focus. His "Don't Rush Life" philosophy, inherited from his father, provides a refreshing counterbalance to the frantic pace many entrepreneurs maintain.

Whether you're just starting your real estate journey or looking to refine your approach after years in the game, Jonathan's blend of old-school wisdom and modern investment strategies offers a blueprint for building wealth that truly stands the test of time. Tune in to discover how patience, persistence, and perspective can transform your investment approach and life satisfaction.

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What happens when someone with investigative skills meets the investment world? You get a powerful tool for protecting individual investors from fraud. Shane, founder of Aegis RSI, brings institutional-level due diligence down to earth for everyday investors.

Shane's journey began in an unexpected place. Originally pursuing a career in law enforcement, a heart condition discovered during military service forced him to pivot. After working as a private investigator, he found himself at Fidelity Investments during the pandemic, where he discovered his true calling in the due diligence department. What he missed, however, was helping individual people directly – something he now does every day through his own venture.

The distinction between background checks and due diligence investigations becomes crystal clear as Shane walks us through his process. While background checks merely verify criminal records, Shane's investigations unravel complex business structures, verify property sales, analyze operational performance, and identify potential red flags in investment opportunities. In one eye-opening example, he discovered a business owner who had used loan money to purchase a private jet – information uncovered through Federal Aviation Administration records.

Timing matters enormously in this work. As Shane explains, investors should engage due diligence services early in their process – after initial interest but before significant time investment. This prevents the all-too-common scenario where investors have already committed substantial time to a deal before discovering fatal flaws. The reports his firm produces don't tell clients whether to invest or not (that would cross into financial advisor territory), but rather clearly outline the risks involved so investors can make truly informed decisions.

For aspiring entrepreneurs, Shane's business-building experience offers valuable lessons. His growth came through persistent social media engagement, personalized connection requests rather than sales pitches, and consistent content creation – even when it felt like "talking to an empty room." His advice: do proper market research, persist even when progress seems slow, prioritize self-care, and learn to delegate lower-value tasks.

Want to protect your investments from fraud? Connect with Shane on LinkedIn or visit HSRSI.com to learn how proper due diligence can save you from costly investment mistakes.

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What happens when radio broadcasting skills meet real estate opportunity? Dave Cole's journey reveals how unexpected pivots can lead to entrepreneurial success when you're paying attention to the possibilities others miss.

Dave's story begins in Chicago's radio industry, where a station sale forced him to reevaluate his path. This unexpected development led him to telecommunications and eventually into real estate marketing, where he discovered his talent for finding unique angles to promote properties. When an expensive real estate kiosk technology was rejected by agencies for its high cost, Dave didn't see failure – he saw an opportunity to create something more affordable using phone technology. This pivot became the foundation for his success.

Throughout his career, Dave has maintained a competitive edge through meticulous tracking. Using nothing more sophisticated than an Excel spreadsheet as his CRM for 25 years, he records every contact, conversation, and follow-up. This discipline enables him to recall specific details from conversations years earlier, building credibility with clients and keeping perfect track of who delivers on promises. Dave's approach exemplifies how simple systems, consistently applied, often outperform complex technologies.

What truly sets Dave apart is his understanding of presentation strategy. He advises treating property marketing like a process: just as a cover letter gets someone to read your resume, which leads to interviews and eventually a job offer, property marketing should follow a purposeful sequence. His practical advice includes practicing 60-second property "commercials" without notes to develop your ability to highlight what makes each property unique. For formal presentations, he recommends preparing for five minutes, then condensing to three, and finally to two – ensuring you deliver your strongest material while having additional information ready for questions.

Ready to transform your real estate marketing approach? Subscribe to Forged in Fire for more insights from entrepreneurs who've navigated the challenges you're facing. Leave us a review to help others discover these valuable lessons from the trenches of real business building.

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What does it take to go from complete novice to successful commercial real estate investor? Beth Underhill's journey reveals it's not expertise, connections, or money—it's the courage to raise your hand and say "I can do that" even when you have no idea how.

Beth and her husband's real estate adventure began unexpectedly in 2018 when a middle-of-the-night infomercial led them to explore house flipping. Already running a successful outdoor construction company, they thought transferring those skills indoors would be straightforward. Then COVID hit, completely shifting market demands and forcing them to pivot into commercial real estate—a world Beth knew nothing about.

The vulnerable moments in Beth's story are what make it so powerful. From Googling terms like "pitch deck" and "investor portal" to feeling completely out of her depth in meetings with potential sponsors, she navigated the steep learning curve by leveraging her strengths in customer service and sheer determination. Beth's candid description of raising millions for deals while still learning the fundamentals herself highlights an entrepreneurial truth rarely discussed: sometimes you figure it out as you go.

Today, Beth has co-sponsored over 200 syndicated units and manages more than 400 student housing beds. Her real estate connections have opened unexpected doors to investments in sports licensing, boutique hotels, and even cannabis. Her advice for aspiring entrepreneurs is refreshingly practical: focus on relationships, start with free communities before investing in expensive masterminds, and aim to connect with just three new people weekly. Most importantly, understand that even when the entrepreneurial journey feels like "the longest rollercoaster ride of your life," resilience is what separates those who succeed from those who don't.

Ready to build your own path? Connect with Beth at investingwithbeth.com or text her at 513-470-1078 to learn more about her approach to real estate and building a diversified investment portfolio.

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