Jevon Perra led a discussion on "Forgiveness as an Ally to Prayer," explaining that forgiveness is the release of judgments and perceptions, which, unlike prayer, is temporary because it ends when one realizes oneness and steps out of the belief in a separate, defined self. Leila Fung and kristen shared personal examples of projecting judgments, with Leila Fung describing an issue with her child’s social interactions and kristen detailing frustration over a friend’s spending habits, which Jevon Perra analyzed as stemming from underlying fears of personal outcomes. The participants, including Soo Kim, explored the conflicting desires for belonging and uniqueness, and Jevon Perra offered Leila Fung practical, open-hearted communication strategies, learned from Jevon Perra's godmothers Caroline and Denise, for dealing with an overwhelming individual, stressing the importance of authenticity over avoidance.

Forgiveness as an Ally to Prayer (Part Two: Forgiveness Introduction): Jevon Perra read a passage stating that forgiveness gives wings to prayer, making its ascent easy and swift, and that without it, one cannot rise above the bottom step of prayer. The text describes forgiveness as prayer's ally and sister in the plan for salvation, both supporting the individual, keeping their feet secure, and their purpose steadfast. While prayer is timeless, forgiveness has an end and becomes unneeded once the rising up is complete. However, in the present, forgiveness has a crucial purpose, and accomplishing it leads to redemption, transformation, and saving the world.

The Temporary Nature of Forgiveness and the Role of Judgment: Jevon Perra explained that forgiveness, unlike its sister prayer, has an end because it is the release of judgments and perceptions. These judgments are the way individuals perceive things, assigning meaning, and often boxing people into categories like "friend or foe," with perceptions frequently flipping between the two categories, even when no actual change in the other person has occurred.

Releasing Perception and Embracing the Current Moment: Jevon Perra discussed that the "perception game" involves giving up one's beliefs, admitting uncertainty, and acknowledging that one may not know what one truly wants. If this is the case, Jevon Perra suggested that the present situation might be perfect, as a "bigger game plan" with God and the universe is giving the individual exactly what they want. If an individual dislikes their companion, their actions, themself, or the world, Jevon Perra stated that the only necessary change might be letting go of the judgment and perception of how things "has to be," which is the essence of forgiveness.

The End of Forgiveness and Realizing Oneness: Jevon Perra stated that the process of forgiveness ends when an individual steps out of the belief that they are a body and that their thoughts define them, because at that point they realize the reality of being connected, that "everything is okay and beautiful," and that their desires are already within them. Jevon Perra likened this state to being in a theater with Jesus, watching the entertaining drama of one's own life.

Leila Fung's Personal Example of Releasing Judgment about her Child's Social Interactions: Leila Fung shared a personal anecdote about a conversation with her mother regarding her child's social life. Leila Fung initially expressed a judgment, thinking her child felt taken for granted by friends, but her mother stopped her, stating that she did not know the truth of the situation. Leila Fung’s child felt like a "last resort friend," being asked to hang out after others were asked, and then being upset when friends did not reply to her, especially after seeing the friends' stories online. Leila Fung explained that after talking with one of the parents, everything was clarified, and she realized she had created "a thousand stories" in her head instead of choosing to forgive, release judgment, and find out the truth. Jevon Perra noted that when it concerns "level one" issues (like one's children), it is easy to enter "attack mode" to protect "my people".

Jevon Perra's Experience of High School Dynamics and Conflicting Desires at a Conference: Jevon Perra shared a personal story about a work trip to Vegas where they felt a "high school scene" dynamic at a conference due to a colleague named Aaron, who was handsome and popular, having a group of "groupies" around them. Jevon Perra described walking behind this group, feeling rejected and separate, and being torn between wanting to talk to people and simultaneously wanting to run away due to difficulty with small talk. Jevon Perra recognized this as a "crazy swirl of meaning" and acknowledged making up many worlds and conflicting desires, such as wanting to be in the conversation but immediately wanting to escape it once there.

Misunderstanding Forgiveness and the Role of Guilt: Jevon Perra introduced the section "Forgiveness of yourself," reading that forgiveness has been profoundly misunderstood, often becoming a "scourge" or "curse" instead of a blessing, especially for those not engaging in the steps of prayer. Jevon Perra explained that forgiveness is initially obscure because salvation is not understood or sought, and what should heal is used to hurt. The discussion highlighted that guilt is often chosen over forgiveness because individuals view their "separate activities" as a means to push through suffering, with the ultimate guilt being the separation from God that creates the special, separate self they ultimately desire to preserve, fearing "complete annihilation" worse than death.

The Origin of Guilt and the Cherishing of Separate Self: Jevon Perra stated that the initial guilt and darkness stem from the act of separating from God, which then leads to projecting that guilt onto other things, causing a constant search for badness. Overcoming this requires releasing one's identity as a separate self, which Jevon Perra noted is often portrayed as a horrifying concept in media, citing examples like the Borg in Star Trek and a show about a mind-joining alien virus where only a few individuals retain separate minds. Jevon Perra concluded that the separate self is cherished, even though it is the source of suffering and the initial guilt one tries to escape.

"Forgiveness to Destroy" and Holding onto Projected Meaning: Jevon Perra read a passage describing "forgiveness to destroy," which suits the world's purpose by overlooking "no sin, no crime, no guilt" that can be found and cherished. Jevon Perra differentiated between forgiveness (seeing others as the same as oneself) and "forgiveness to destroy," which twists the idea of forgiveness, perhaps by making someone feel judged while being forgiven (e.g., "I'm going to forgive you, but just know you did a bad thing") or by minimizing oneself to "put up with it". This destructive form of forgiveness values error, magnifying mistakes, picking out "all evil things," and viewing love as a "hateful thing of danger and of death".

Contradictory Desires and the Ego's Promise: Jevon Perra discussed the conflicting desires inherent in the ego's world, such as wanting to be loved and accepted while remaining separate and special, or wanting one's children to be strong without experiencing suffering. Jevon Perra stated that these desires contradict each other, as struggle and difficulty are what build strength, and separation is inherently painful despite the desire to be unique. The ego promises that separation will work, encouraging one to "Seek but do not find".

The Practice of Releasing Seriousness and Choosing the Face of Christ: Jevon Perra emphasized the importance of self-forgiveness by releasing one's own recurring difficulties and choosing peace by not seeing error and not making it real. Jevon Perra advised selecting the loving choice and forgiving sin by seeing "the face of Christ" instead. Jevon Perra noted that hating the son (others) is hating the father (God), because seeing the son is seeing oneself, and how one sees oneself determines how God is seen. Jevon Perra stressed not making things so "serious" because seriousness is linked to the belief that death is real. If death is not real, the seriousness can be removed, and the need to create an enemy can be released.

The Illusion of Enemies and the Impact of Seriousness: Jevon Perra explained that the need for an enemy arises when seriousness, and thus the reality of death, enters the game, justifying attack, even toward loved ones, as an attempt to protect them (e.g., yelling at kids to stay away from the street). Jevon Perra connected the attack on loved ones to the belief in the reality of death and applied this logic to attacking strangers, which is enabled by the "belief that there is a stranger" in the first place, rather than seeing everyone as loved by God.

kristen's Example of Projecting Financial Judgment: kristen shared an example of projecting judgment onto someone named China, expressing frustration over China's spending habits, lack of savings, and frequent trips and concerts. kristen admitted yelling at China because they fear China will "end up like me," indicating an underlying concern tied to personal experience. Jevon Perra acknowledged the situation, relating it to their own experiences with family members and money mismanagement. Jevon Perra analyzed that the anger stems from the projection that the family member's mismanagement will lead them to ask Jevon Perra for money, creating an unwelcome situation where Jevon Perra would feel compelled to either give money, which Jevon Perra dislikes, or reject them and feel guilty/angry.

Shifting Perspective on Requests for Help: Jevon Perra suggested reframing the situation to see the request for money differently, such as feeling grateful that the family member views Jevon Perra as a safe person to ask for things, even if the answer remains "No".

The Connection Between "Other" and "Enemy": Soo Kim questioned Jevon Perra's choice of the word "other" versus "enemy". Jevon Perra clarified that one must be an "other" to become an enemy, and explained the spectrum of oneness, from one's friend group to family, nation, and humanity, versus the instantaneous creation of an "other" who is unlike oneself and therefore acceptable to attack.

The Conflict Between Belonging and Uniqueness: Soo Kim discussed with their therapist the "push pull" between wanting to belong and wanting to be unique or authentic. Jevon Perra affirmed that the solution is not to focus on one or the other, but to recognize that the conflict is "not real". Jevon Perra reiterated the importance of self-awareness by watching oneself, as illustrated by their conference experience of desiring popularity and then immediately wanting to escape the crowd when achieved.

Leila Fung's Church Experience of Desiring and Escaping Popularity: Leila Fung shared a similar experience at her church, where she desired to be well-known and engage in conversations, but upon achieving it, realized that the conversations were unhealthy and the people seeking attention were primarily looking for someone to listen to their "horror story or their drama". Leila Fung concluded that the reality was not what they thought it was.

The Dichotomy of Wanting and Escaping Fame/Popularity: Jevon Perra likened this dynamic to the desire for fame, where people eventually complain about lack of privacy and constant interruption. Jevon Perra admitted to having a "spiritual asshole" about activities they deem unworthy of their time, like talking about football. However, Jevon Perra noted that engaging in "openhearted intercourse with the supposed other" makes the "otherness" disappear, citing the example of the unity and openness found in a stadium of sports fans.

The Conditional Nature of Oneness and Relationship Checklists: Jevon Perra discussed how the story of oneness (like the unity at a sports game) is often accompanied by rules and criteria that can lead to its demise when people add their own destructive storylines, such as breaking a TV when a team loses. Jevon Perra compared this to relationships, where people have a checklist of requirements, and if the partner breaks a rule, the relationship is instantly terminated, and the person is quickly deemed an enemy "worthy of attack".

Leila Fung's Situation with a Talkative Person: Leila Fung asked for help regarding a situation with a "very nice person" who was overwhelming because she constantly shared stories of anger and complaining. Leila Fung found it difficult to breathe and had to excuse themself under false pretenses. The person's daughter was invited over, and Leila Fung was unsure how to interact with the person again, seeking a way to "benefit" or feel safe in the space.

Jevon Perra's Strategy for Dealing with Judged Individuals: Jevon Perra acknowledged their own tendency to judge people as "unworthy to be with". Jevon Perra explained that they try to emulate their godmother, Caroline, who is an "open light," by advising people, but framing the advice so that it is about Jevon Perra's own behavior (e.g., "I found that in my life...") while secretly addressing the behavior that is being judged. This technique allows Jevon Perra to find the dynamic in themself, which lessens the annoyance, and often leads to profound conversations.

A Direct Approach to Over-Talking: Leila Fung expressed that her difficulty with the person was due to the rapid, constantly jumping topics. Jevon Perra suggested a more direct approach learned from their godmother, Denise. Denise starts by asking, "Have you noticed that?" and then shares her observation (e.g., "Have you noticed that you don't stop enough to have other people share?"). Leila Fung liked this phrasing ("Other people can't participate") and felt it would be helpful because the person "scares a lot of people off".

Choosing Authenticity Over Offense: Jevon Perra stressed that while the direct approach might offend, it is better to be authentic and open-hearted than to hate one's life or eventually explode in anger. Jevon Perra stated that one cannot control whether someone takes offense but can control their own intention.

Truthfulness vs. Lying in Communication: Jevon Perra discussed the desire for truthfulness and asked, "How much truth do you want?". They pointed out that most people would say they want truth, but many implicitly desire a slight lie. Jevon Perra emphasized that if one wants others to be truthful, they should offer their own true feelings in return, but in a non-accusatory, open-hearted way. Accusatory language (e.g., "You are annoying," "You're a hypocrite") triggers defense and attack.

Framing Observations as Personal Realizations: Jevon Perra suggested framing the feedback about over-talking by saying, "It's occurred to me, I don't know if you've noticed this, and maybe I'm off," and then using the metaphor of a story having periods and paragraphs (space). Jevon Perra suggested asking, "What's going on in your mind? Tell me about that. Why is there no space?". Jevon Perra explained that a lack of space to speak often stems from the speaker being afraid to hear what others will say, which can be directly asked.

Practicing Healthy Communication and the "I Love You" Filler: Jevon Perra emphasized the need to be a "really strong person to have a soft, open heart and be that direct". Leila Fung noted that practicing this builds the muscle necessary for healthy communication, preventing bottling up feelings until one "blows up". Jevon Perra shared that their godmother Caroline uses "I love you so much" as a conversational filler, which recontextualizes the conversation and reminds the other person that Jevon Perra is a friend.

Choosing Loving Conversation Over Avoidance: Leila Fung admitted they previously complained about the person to her spouse and used to cut people out. Jevon Perra questioned which action is kinder: avoiding the person or having an open-hearted, loving, and curious conversation. Jevon Perra argued that avoiding the person is "self-serving" and only has the appearance of being loving, which Jevon Perra termed "nice behavior" that is insincere and bothers them.

The Benefits of Realness and Oneness: Leila Fung shared a success story of confronting another friend directly, which led to a positive and receptive response and an invitation to Thanksgiving. Leila Fung concluded that going directly to the problem and finding the truth allows for mutual seeing and a connection of oneness, recognizing that others are going through similar struggles.

Forgiveness as a Vibrational State and Release of Separation: Jevon Perra read a concluding passage stating that just as prayer is for oneself, forgiveness is always given to oneself, and it is impossible to forgive another because one only sees their own sins in the "supposedly the other". Jevon Perra defined prayer as a "vibrational state" achieved when releasing judgments and beliefs of separation, which raises one's state and is akin to a state of gratitude. Jevon Perra explained that forgiving the other is actually releasing oneself from the belief of separation and the story of having an enemy. When one releases this idea, the whole world is freed because the "dynamic of bondage and enemy is just ideas that I have in my mind," freeing the individual to realize they have been safe with Jesus all along.