There’s a line from a John O’Donahue poem that goes like this: “I would love to live like the river flows, carried by the surprise of its own unfolding.” What does it look like to be that free? To release the grip of control and trust in life’s unfolding? In this episode, Eunice Park embodies that river-like freedom in a radical way. For 50 months—over four years—she lived an itinerant, “wonky” life, moving every few days from convents and friaries to friends’ homes, often living out of a single bag with no fixed itinerary. Triggered by the loss of her father, a layoff during COVID, and a deep desire for rest and healing, Eunice stepped into a modern Franciscan journey that echoes the early days of Francis and his companions. Now back in one place and recalibrating to “normal” life, Eunice reflects on the profound lessons from her time on the road: the healing power of Franciscan spirituality in addressing guilt and shame cultures, the liberation found in the Franciscan emphasis on the Incarnation as an act of divine love rather than primarily a response to sin, and the surprising freedom that comes from embracing poverty of control. Through candid stories of convent beds, late-night kitchen raids, deep conversations with old ministry friends, and learning to receive hospitality, Eunice explores what it truly means to let ourselves be loved, to see ourselves as “pockets of joy” for others, and to practice openness in daily life. She shares how this journey revealed her own resiliency and tenacity while challenging her to release transactional mindsets and embrace mutuality in relationships. Whether you’re drawn to Franciscan theology, navigating ministry burnout, wrestling with self-worth, or simply longing for greater freedom and presence, this conversation offers rich wisdom on building community, choosing what we tether ourselves to, and living with open hands in a world that prizes control. Eunice J. Park is a spiritual life coach, retreat facilitator, multilingual kimchi maker, cultural critic, spiritual accompanist, cook, writer, crafter, musician, editor, hot-sauce brewer, and dinner party comic. Above all, she is a follower of Francis and Clare.

(00:00:01) Introduction

(00:02:02) Background

(00:10:47) Itinerancy's Call and Struggles in Ministry

(00:27:00) Reflection No. 1: Interrupting Patterns of the Heart and Mind

(00:29:54) Gifts of Itinerancy

(00:35:47) Understanding Franciscan Poverty

(00:38:44) Theology of Worthiness

(00:42:55) Reflection No. 2: Poverty of Control

(00:45:38) The Joy of Receiving and Community Building

(00:49:08) Allowing Oneself to be Loved

(01:02:17) Reflection No. 3: 'You Are a Little Pocket of Joy for Someone Else'

(01:04:44) Moving Beyond Transaction, Living Freely, and Knowing Yourself

(01:11:38) 'Is this Building Community?'

(01:14:45) Conclusion

One of the issues that has dominated the headlines in the United States is immigration and this administration’s approach to deportation. How do our Christian and Franciscan values serve as a guiding light in an issue that is complex and nuanced, yet at the same time crystal clear when it comes to human dignity and the importance of serving the margins? This episode's guest, Sister Suzanne Susany, OSF, of the Sisters of St. Francis of the Neumann Communities, is an immigration lawyer who lives and works in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. After a number of twists and turns in her career, Sister Suzanne attained a degree in law from Duquesne University in 2010. Sister Suzanne is on the front lines of immigration and deals first hand with migrants seeking refuge in the United States. In this candid conversation, Sister Suzanne shares her experiences as an immigration lawyer and the challenges she has faced the last two years. She shares how her Franciscan values animate her work and invites listeners to recover the soul of America as we approach its 250th birthday.

The show notes are available here.

(00:00:01) Introduction

(00:04:33) Sister Suzanne's Franciscan and Legal Background

(00:11:39) Why Become an Immigration Attorney?

(00:13:53) If Our Immigration System had a Franciscan Heart

(00:19:46) Reflection No. 1: What is the Common Good?

(00:22:11) The Danger of Labeling

(00:28:13) Stories of Immigrants

(00:39:51) Reflection No. 2: Story as Spiritual Encounter

(00:43:21) Unprecedented Shifts in Immigration Law

(00:53:56) 2025: The Most Trying Year as an Immigration Attorney

(00:57:09) Why is this Happening?

(00:59:38) Reflection No. 3: America at 250

(01:03:16) ICE and Recovering the Soul of America

(01:11:09) Responding to Opposing Arguments

(01:19:17) What is Wrong with This Picture?

(01:23:39) America at 250 and the Brilliance of the Founding Fathers

(01:28:59) Looking Forward

(01:31:57) Conclusion

Murray Bodo, OFM, is a Franciscan priest and an award-winning author of numerous books, including the bestselling, Francis: The Journey and the Dream. He has had poems, stories and articles published in magazines and literary journals in the United States, England, and Ireland. A founding staff member of Franciscan Pilgrimage Programs, he led yearly pilgrimages to Assisi, Italy for over 40 years before retiring in 2020.

Father Murray recently wrote his 12th book of poetry, Brother Wind and Air: A Lifetime in Verse, which is the focus of this episode. This interview was recorded last April when this book was originally released, but when Franciscan Media discontinued its book line, people were no longer able to find the book and order it. That is, until now. The book can now be ordered exclusively through Ascension Press’s website. The themes of wind and air permeate this work, as Father Murray likens them to the divine breath that animates us all. No title could be more fitting, for Father Murray has spent a lifetime turning “momentary stays” into verse, breathing life into all who read.

The show notes are available here.

(00:00:01) Introduction

(00:02:46) Why Write this Book?

(00:06:34) Poem No. 1: "Fountain Pen"

(00:12:52) Poetry as a Journey Into God

(00:17:34) Poem No. 2: "Thin Air"

(00:25:32) Poem No. 3: "Why I Write"

(00:32:43) Poem. No. 4: "Thunder and Rain"

(00:42:30) Poem No. 5: "Playing at Solar Eclipse"

(00:51:42) Poem No. 6 "An Illuminated Miniature"

(00:56:41) Poem No. 7 "Snow, Christmas Morning"

(01:08:37) Poem No. 8 "When We Were Meteors"

(01:11:11) Conclusion

What does it mean to live a life of true dialogue—not just talking, but deeply listening to the world, to other traditions, and even to unexpected voices like Bad Bunny? In this rich, free-flowing conversation, Father Cyprian Consiglio, OSB Cam., a Camaldolese Benedictine monk, musician, and current Secretary General of Monastic Interreligious Dialogue in Rome, discusses themes from his new book, Epiphanies of Nature and Grace: Twelve Meditations from a Life in Dialogue. Father Cyprian explores:

• How a chance encounter with Bede Griffiths decades ago sparked a lifelong journey into universal wisdom and interreligious encounter.
• Why real dialogue isn't two monologues crossing, but a humble openness to receive truth, beauty, and goodness wherever they appear—from ancient Taoist texts to modern pop spectacles.
• A theology of the Word (Logos) that bridges Christianity with other traditions, seeing manifestations of the divine in nature, culture, consciousness, and even the evolving spectrum of the human psyche.
• How grace builds on (but never destroys) nature, challenging rigid monocultures in religion, politics, and identity.
• The urgent call today: evolving our consciousness through contemplative practice to heal divisions, embrace diversity, and return to the sources so we can move forward together.

The show notes are available here.

(00:00:01) Introduction

(00:02:39) Religious Order and Background

(00:04:42) What is Dialogue?

(00:08:45) Listening and Receptivity

(00:15:56) Reflection No. 1: Open to Receive

(00:18:22) Encountering Father Bede Griffiths: Universal Wisdom

(00:26:19) Father Bede's Lasting Impact: Body, Soul, Spirit

(00:33:47) A Theology of the Word

(00:41:44) Truth, Beauty, and Goodness: Reverse Evangelization

(00:48:42) Reflection No. 2: The Wealth of Nations

(00:52:05) Bad Bunny, Inculturation, and Echo Chambers in Politics Today

(01:01:44) Reflection No. 3: Bad Bunny and Unitive Consciousness

(01:05:24) Call to Action: Evolving our Consciousness, Going Back to the Sources

(01:11:02) May We Be Stonecutters

(01:12:50) Conclusion

Have you ever looked back on your adolescent and young adult years and wondered how those experiences formed your personality, conscience, ambitions, desires, and even insecurities? What did your ordinary jobs throughout these formative years teach you about yourself, God, and the world you were stepping into? As you stepped into young adulthood, what did you learn about the cruelty and goodness of the world? About being mean or kind? About who you wanted to become?

In this episode, Fr. James Martin, SJ — Jesuit priest, New York Times bestselling author, and one of the most relatable voices in contemporary spirituality — sits down for a heartfelt, often hilarious, conversation about his new memoir, Work in Progress: Confessions of a Busboy, Dishwasher, Caddy, Usher, Factory Worker, Bank Teller, Corporate Tool, and Priest. Rev. James Martin is the founder of Outreach, editor at large of America Magazine, and host of The Spiritual Life Podcast. Fr. Jim is also the chaplain of Stephen Colbert's The Colbert Report and is a frequent commentator for major news outlets, including CNN, NPR, and The New York Times.

Whether you’re spiritually curious, wrestling with your own calling, longing to understand yourself more deeply, or just craving a reminder that your story matters, this episode is for you. God meets us exactly where we are—flawed, funny, and still very much a work in progress.

The show notes are available here.

(00:00:01) Introduction

(00:03:16) Why Write This Book?

(00:04:58) Learning from the Past

(00:11:38) Reflection No. 1: How Memories Can Become Our Teacher

(00:16:17) Developing the Superpower of Not Caring What Others Think

(00:20:05) The Spiritual Practice of Memoir

(00:22:11) Navigating Guilt and Shame, Embracing Our Humanity

(00:26:41) The Connection Between Kindness and Being Comfortable in One's Own Skin

(00:29:16) Turning Point: Losing His Best Friend

(00:33:35) The Gift of Friendship

(00:36:06) Memoir as Spiritual Practice: Cultivating Gratitude

(00:38:55) What Does it Mean to Be Yourself?

(00:43:55) Reflection No. 2: Mining Desire and Discovering the True Self

(00:46:15) Finding One's Vocation

(00:53:00) The Book's Impact and Golf Stories

(00:57:51) Kindness and Working at the Ice Cream Inn

(00:59:58) Reflection No. 3: Kindness is Everything

(01:02:10) Kindness and Closing Thoughts

(01:05:27) Conclusion

What if the Incarnation wasn’t primarily about fixing our sin but about God’s extravagant desire to become one with all creation? What if beauty isn’t just something we admire—it’s the heartbeat of reality, calling us to slow down, receive gifts, and respond with hope in a fractured world? Franciscan friar and philosopher Blessed John Duns Scotus (1265/66-1308), known as the “Subtle Doctor,” is one of the most underappreciated major theologians throughout Church history. His complexity also makes him one of the most misunderstood. Scholars like Dr. Mary Beth Ingham have helped make his theology accessible to people all around the world. This episode explores four important theological insights from Scotus that can impact our approach to life and faith today:

• Scotus’s mystical vision of beauty as a transformative encounter with God’s abundant love (and why it’s a lifeline in our attention-overloaded, reactive culture).
• His profound take on free choice and thoughtful self-restraint—rooted in our innate dignity and perfect for today’s conversations on sustainability, poverty, and genuine freedom.
• The revolutionary Franciscan view of the Incarnation (the absolute primacy of Christ)—shifting the focus from sin at the center to God’s loving initiative at the heart of everything.
• The wonder of haecceity (“thisness”)—the unique, unrepeatable gift of every person, rock, leaf, and moment—and how it invites us to celebrate particularity in community.

Mary Beth Ingham, CSJ, is Professor Emerita in Loyola Marymount University’s philosophy department and is a former professor of philosophical theology at the Franciscan School of Theology. She holds a doctorate in medieval philosophy from the University of Fribourg (Switzerland) and has published widely on the thought of Blessed John Duns Scotus. Her recent publications include: Scotus for Dunces: An Introduction to the Subtle Doctor (2003), Rejoicing in the Works of the Lord: Beauty in the Franciscan Tradition (2009), and The Harmony of Goodness: Mutuality and Moral Living in John Duns Scotus (2012). In her current research, she argues that the spirituality of beauty is at the heart of the Franciscan intellectual tradition.

The show notes are available here.

(00:00:01) Introduction

(00:05:58) Who was Blessed John Duns Scotus?

(00:16:37) First Insight: Mystical Vision of Beauty

(00:30:09) First Reflection: Beauty and the Beholder

(00:31:55) Second Insight: Free Choice and Thoughtful Self-Restraint

(00:47:28) Second Reflection: Covenant as a Pathway to Freedom

(00:49:10) Third Insight: A Franciscan Approach to the Incarnation

(01:04:59) Third Reflection: Psychological Implications of the Incarnation

(01:07:29) Fourth Insight: Haecceity (Thinness)

(01:13:04) Fourth Reflection: The Sound of the Genuine

(01:15:26) Final Thoughts

(01:18:17) Conclusion

The historic 1219 meeting between St. Francis of Assisi and Sultan Malik al-Kamil during the Fifth Crusade is a powerful (and often overlooked) example of peacemaking and respectful dialogue between Christians and Muslims. While most people only know Francis’s side of the story, the Sultan’s openness and courage were just as important. Their surprising friendship still offers a hopeful model today for bridging deep divisions, reducing polarization, and having real conversations across religious and cultural lines.

Fr. Michael Calabria is a Franciscan friar at the Province of Our Lady of Guadalupe and director of the Center for Arab and Islamic Studies at St. Bonaventure University. With more than 40 years of experience in the Middle East and Islamic world, he first fell in love with the region as an Egyptology student doing archaeological work in Egypt (BA Johns Hopkins, MA Brown). After working as an academic librarian in New York, he joined the Franciscan Order in 1996, later earning divinity degrees and a PhD in Islamic Studies from the University of Exeter in England. He has lived in Cairo multiple times, ministered in a leprosarium, and taught English at a Coptic Catholic seminary. Since 2003 he has taught Arabic and Islamic Studies at St. Bonaventure University, where he founded the Center for Arab and Islamic Studies. He is the author of the 2022 book The Language of the Taj Mahal, which explores the Qur’anic inscriptions on the monument, and has appeared in documentaries including The Sultan and the Saint (2016) and Islam’s Greatest Stories of Love (2025).

The show notes are available here.

(00:00:01) Introduction

(00:03:20) Historical Context

(00:09:37) Francis’ Arrival in Egypt and His Mission

(00:16:19) The Encounter with Sultan Malik al-Kamil

(00:23:20) Francis’ Counter-Cultural Approach

(00:27:15) The Sultan’s Impact on Francis

(00:31:29) Francis’ Legacy and Missionary Approach

(00:36:26) Bridging Faiths

(00:42:55) Lessons from History: Interfaith Dialogue and Vatican II

(00:45:12) This Story’s Relevance Today

(00:48:00) The Nature of Goodness: Understanding Faith Beyond Labels

(00:52:02) Religion, Conflict, and the Human Element

(00:56:03) The Enrichment of Faith: Learning from Other Traditions

(01:02:34) The Call to Open Hearts: Interfaith Dialogue in Action

(01:09:20) Conclusion

What does it mean to age with grace, to let go without losing hope, and to face life’s deepest losses with open hands? What does it mean to move toward spiritual maturity as life unfolds, and how can a spirituality of letting go help take us there? In this conversation, Fr. Ronald Rolheiser joins Off the Page to explore themes from his powerful new book, Insane for the Light: A Spirituality for Our Wisdom Years, which was released on October 28, 2025. From the raw beauty of metanoia to the transformative power of passivity, Fr. Ron reveals how suffering, helplessness, and even death can become our greatest gifts—if we dare to live while we’re dying.

Ronald Rolheiser, OMI, is a Roman Catholic priest and member of the Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate. He is a theologian, professor, award-winning author, and served as president of the Oblate School of Theology. He is known for his lectures, globally-syndicated column "In Exile," and his bestselling books The Holy Longing and Sacred Fire.

The show notes are available here.

(00:00:01) Introduction

(00:01:57) Spirituality of Aging

(00:03:46) Wisdom Years

(00:05:41) Insane for the Light: Story Behind the Title

(00:07:45) Getting Our Lives Together, Giving Our Lives Away

(00:12:53) Reflection No. 1: Seven Movements Toward Spiritual Maturity

(00:14:32) Giving Your Death Away

(00:15:58) Metanoia and Paranoia

(00:20:36) Pondering: Carrying and Transforming Tension

(00:27:27) How Pain Can Deepen Us

(00:34:59) Dark Nights of Faith

(00:38:37) “My God, My God, Why Have You Forsaken Me?”

(00:42:57) When the Power Point Stops Working

(00:43:53) Reflection No. 2: Take On Your Higher Mind

(00:46:43) Understanding More By Not Understanding

(00:48:06) Activity and Passivity

(00:54:10) When You Feel Helpless

(00:58:16) Reflection No. 3: Activity and Passivity

(00:58:30) The Gift and Challenge of Passivity (Passion)

(01:03:50) When You’re Told You Don’t Have Much Time to Live

(01:07:07) A Creed for Giving Your Life and Death Away

(01:09:15) Conclusion

St. Francis of Assisi famously prayed, “Who are you, my God, and who am I?” Greg Cellini found himself praying a similar prayer after almost three decades of working and climbing within the pharmaceutical industry. That's when everything changed. He began the process of entering religious life.

His journey is one that invites each of us to contemplate the source of our dreams and desires and consider who we are at the core of our identity. The timing of this conversation, just after the Feast Day of St. Francis and at the start of Franciscan Month, invites each of us to consider our own callings and dare to pray the prayer St. Francis prayed.

Brother Greg Cellini, OSF, is a Franciscan Brother of Brooklyn. His primary ministry is at St. Francis College where he has served as an adjunct professor as well as director of the Office of Mission, Ministry, and Interfaith dialogue. He is the host of "Thank God For Monday," a weekly radio talk show about the workplace. He is a graduate of St. Bonaventure University’s advanced certificate in Franciscan Studies. He also earned degrees at Rutgers Graduate School of Management and Seton Hall University Stillman School of Business. He is the author of Transform Yourself - Transform the World: A Franciscan View of Career.

Click here to view the show notes for this episode.

(00:00:01) Introduction

(00:01:59) Climbing in the Corporate World

(00:03:59) Spiritual Background

(00:05:43) When God Calls You Elsewhere

(00:10:18) Dreams and Desires: What is the Source?

(00:13:38) Holy Surrender

(00:17:26) Reflection No. 1: Dreams and Desires

(00:20:02) A Mysterious Encounter and the Call to Religious Life

(00:25:18) Why the Franciscans?

(00:27:36) Ordered Love, Dis-ordered Love, and Performance

(00:31:49) Reflection No. 2: Remembering Your Identity

(00:35:13) Entering Religious Life and Going Inward

(00:38:57) The Blessings of Failure and Endings

(00:44:13) What is Downward Mobility?

(00:48:10) Reflection No. 3: Downward Mobility

(00:49:56) Education and the Franciscan Charism

(00:55:06) The Challenges Young People Face

(01:00:26) What is Franciscan Month?

(01:08:20) Closing Reflections and Prayer

(01:09:54) Conclusion

Thomas Merton once wrote, “Let us come alive to the splendor that is all around us and see the beauty in ordinary things.” The busyness of life—work, family, commitments, and our seeming ever-lengthening to-do lists—can sweep us into a lifestyle of frantic doing and accomplishing that can lead to a lack of presence and awareness to the splendor that is all around us. Wonder and praise can sometimes take a backseat as we become hyper-focused on what needs to be done. Practicing presence is a lifelong journey, but what a wonderful journey it is, as our awareness for divine goodness and beauty and grace deepens and expands within us, and as our desires become channeled in a way that leads us toward joy, peace, and contentment. Mark Longhurst’s book, The Holy Ordinary: A Way to God (October 2024, Monkfish), explores this exact topic and helps readers awaken to the sacred in the ordinary. What does it look like to live contemplatively as life uniquely unfolds for each of us, even in the busyness? Influential author and theologian Brian McClaren says this of Longhurst's book: “For years, I’ve been wishing for a book that could introduce ordinary people to the spiritual life in a healthy, honest, accessible way. Mark Longhurst has written what I’ve been waiting for.”

Mark Longhurst is a writer, an “ordinary mystic,” and member of the new monastic “Community of the Incarnation.” He works as the Publications Manager at the Center for Action and Contemplation and is a former pastor who served United Church of Christ churches for 10 years and worked as a faith-based social justice activist in the Boston area for 10 more. A graduate of Harvard Divinity School and a longtime yoga practitioner, Mark lives in western Massachusetts with his family. Click here for the episode page and show notes.

(00:00:01) Introduction

(00:02:39) Why Write this Book?

(00:04:17) Struggling to Notice the Holy Ordinary

(00:09:24) What Do We Mean by "Deeper Reality"?

(00:11:50) Reflection No. 1: Letting Wonder and Praise Sing through Our Lives

(00:14:41) What Does it Look Like to "Receive Grace"?

(00:17:23) Emptiness and Letting Go

(00:22:33) Contemplation: Not a Flight From the World

(00:28:35) What is Holiness?

(00:35:34) Reflection No. 2: Thin Places

(00:37:34) Mark Longhurst's Spiritual Journey

(00:40:50) Contemplative Practice and the Importance of Community

(00:44:44) The Holy Ordinary and Lived Experience

(00:46:04) Reflection No. 3: Welcoming the Holy Spirit Into Our Inner Margins

(00:48:30) Contemplation and Desire

(00:56:48) Final Thoughts

(00:58:56) Conclusion