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From Caterpillar to Butterfly: Raquella's Journey
Article 19 is back! After a hibernation, we're ready to bloom again. Listen to Katie and Kristen interview longtime listener, first time caller, Raquella Freeman, as she shares her disability journey with us. While ableism and sexism tried to keep her down, Raquella leaned hard on the voices that lifted her up and is now an advocate for those who follow.
At the end of the episode, Katie gives Raquella a unique gift, and Raquella undergoes a surprise metamorphosis.
Listen wherever you get your podcasts.
Learn more about web accessibility at Tammaninc.com and document accessibility, and accessibility training and consulting at ChaxTC.com.
00:00:00,171
Article 19 Intro Recording: Expression is one of the most powerful tools we have. A voice, a
pen, a keyboard.
Eleanor Roosevelt Recording: “The real change which must give to people throughout the world their human rights must come about in the hearts of people. We must want our fellow human beings to have rights and freedoms which give them dignity.”
Article 19 Recording: Article 19 is the voice in the room. (tech Music bed)
00:00:25
Walt Zielinski: So for me, the moment that I realized digital accessibility was something I wanted to learn more about was when it dawned on me that the same sort of fight for gay rights and being visibly queer was sort of the same exact fight being fought for people with disabilities. Accessibility is all about championing people whose voices are inherently, by society, stifled or shut down because they exist outside of the typical space. And when I realized that it was all part of the same fight, that my fight for religious freedom, for queer liberation, was the same as the fight for disability rights, it became very obvious that it was something that I had to pursue in some way.
00:01:23
Rose Bliesner: I was drawn into digital accessibility when I first met people who worked in this space. When I learned that digital accessibility was something that people had careers in and
something that people dedicated their lives to, I was intrigued. I met several accessibility
professionals and learned that they are the most empathetic, most passionate people, and that they really, really love what they do. And so their enthusiasm for their craft really motivated me to educate myself on how to make the world more accessible. And I have loved every minute of it.
00:01:55
Rob Underwood: When I got hired by Chax to remediate InDesign documents for assistive
technologies it was the very first time I realized that digital accessibility was something that I
wanted to learn more about. I've been teaching InDesign for 20 years, but I never knew how to make an accessible document. When I was hired, I was taught the process of document
remediation in small, incremental steps at first. I learned about the importance of headings and document structure. Once we got into color contrast, tables, and the pack checker, I understood the importance of the job we were performing, and how accessibility wasn't a nice-to-have, it was a must. The real aha moment for me was the first time DAX showed us what the documents we created sounded like with a screen reader. For the first time, I could finally grasp how people interact with assistive technology. It was then that I realized that my skillset could provide value to the team and that I wanted to learn everything I could about document remediation. Being part of a team that is at the forefront of accessibility makes me feel good about the work I'm doing. For the first time in my life, I feel like I'm working at a job that gives me purpose.
00:03:07
Taylor Kellar: When I first started working for Chax, I had a very vague understanding as to what digital accessibility meant. I thought that because technology was ever evolving, that
accessibility was something that was already being automatically considered. It wasn't until I
realized that programs that I use as an able-bodied individual, like Microsoft Word and Adobe Acrobat, have barriers that my coworkers who don't utilize technology in the same way have trouble accessing. What inspires me to learn more about digital accessibility is my co-workers. I feel very lucky that I get a first-hand experience learning tips and tricks on how to make my own content more accessible, and as a world that's primarily online, I think we owe it to ourselves to make content accessible for everyone.
00:03:51
Katie Samson, (cohost): Hello, everyone, and welcome to Article 19. What's up, Kristen?
Kristen Witucki, (cohost): Oh, it's been a minute, Katie. We're, you know, we've taken a little
break, and it's really great to be back with you again and with our producer, Markus Goldman.
00:04:06
KS: Yes, we got the band back together.
KW: Yeah, we did.
KS: We're going to have some great music, some awesome topics coming up in 2026. And we figured we'd start a little bit easy, starting internal to Tammann and Chax.
00:04:20
KW: with our most ardent listener, our loyalist fan, perhaps our only downloader, but
nevertheless, she's been there through it all and a lot more.
KS: So let's bring her in. Welcome everyone to the kickoff of 2026. Article 19. Raquella
Freeman. Hello.
Raquella Freeman: Hi, everyone.
KS: So glad to have you with us.
RF: Long time listener, First time caller. Thank you. So excited to be here and be a part of this
for sure.
00:04:53
KS: Raquella, can you tell our listeners where you are situated right now?
RF: So I am in Green Bay, Wisconsin. It is the heat of winter, which means it's about negative
something out there right now. And I think we're about to have a snowstorm beginning tonight and into tomorrow.
00:05:11
KW: So you mean another snowstorm, right? Another snowstorm. Not the first snowstorm.
RF: Correct. We had our first snowstorm last week, so this will be our second snowstorm, and
it's only the second week of December, so we're doing great.
00:05:26
KS: Wow. Those Wisconsinners, you guys really earn your seasons, I gotta say.
RF: Yes. We spend most of our time in winter, and we really look forward to those three months of summer.
00:05:38
KS: Well, it's so great to have you with us and to kick off what I think is going to be, you know, an exciting year for us. We've got a little bit more flexibility to explore some topics. You know, you're one of our faves. So we had to do the call out first. Kristen, you want to kick us off with a softball question?
KW: Yeah, yeah. Well, Maybe not the softballs, I don't know. Softballs are hard, though. I've
been hit with one. So let's just start at the beginning. If you think about your family, Raquella, and your beginnings, because this is going to sound sort of random, but it all leads to the great pinnacle of you being with us now. When you think back to your, you know, your birth and your early childhood, how do you think your parents would have described those early years and how did they discover or diagnose your disability needs?
00:06:33
RF: That's a fun question. My early years were really complicated. I had health conditions right away. I was born about a month, almost two months early, and this was in the early nineties. So medical practice wasn't what it is today. And I had health complications, spent over a month in the hospital, and they weren't sure you know, what would happen after having a brain bleed. You know, they had no way of knowing what my life would be like until I grew up a little bit. And then as the years went on, my parents tell me that I was a very precocious child, like I was talking circles around them even starting as early as three years old. I could tell you about everything that ever happened and I wanted to tell you everything that I had in my head, but I couldn't sit up. So you had a child who could talk your ear off, but physically I was barely crawling, had limited mobility and couldn't sit up without a lot of support. So they knew something was going on, but the local doctors in my small town that I grew up in didn't know what it was. And they said, Oh, she'll catch up. Don't worry about it. She'll catch up. You know, we were getting older and my parents were like, this doesn't feel like a she'll catch up thing. So they took me to a more advanced doctor in Milwaukee, which is one of the bigger cities in Wisconsin. And they have a great children's hospital there where I met my doctor, Dr. Schwab, who diagnosed me within like a second of meeting me. They said they barely even walked into the exam room and he was like, Oh, so she has cerebral palsy. Like, let's get working on how we can support her and get her the support she needs. And it was him who, you know, helped my parents figure out what my diagnosis meant, started helping me get the medical equipment I needed to get support, get physical therapy and kind of get that process started in my life. And he was also the guy who did all of my surgeries for all of my young years, the surgeries that I've had. And he was great. Like he, he really did change my life. and like help my family and me figure out what the next steps were, but never held me back from anything I wanted to do. Just made sure that I had everything I needed to be successful.
00:08:53
KS: We've talked a lot, Raquella, about just the physical barriers that we have to face as
wheelchair users, navigating winter, navigating a lot of things. How did you learn in those early years and in your own life about all of the barriers, I guess, and then, you know, the ableism that comes with it? Did you start to see signs of that when you were a child, when you were trying to get involved in certain activities, or did it start to kind of creep in, yeah, over time?
RF: It was there pretty early. I think, you know, maybe my earliest memory of it, you know, I
was… In kindergarten, I think when I started to go to school was when I noticed students
treating me differently and people not knowing how to interact with me. Like that's how it began early on. And I had to learn very quickly that like this was going to be part of life for me and how to navigate that space, which I credit my grandmother for. giving me the words to work in those spaces, which because she was the one who told me, hey, people aren't going to understand how capable you are. They might make fun of you, but what's most important is that you just show them that you're just like they are. And then maybe you need a little support. Like she gave me the language to be like, Hey, you know, don't make fun of me. Like I'm good. Like gave me the strength to stop people from putting me down instantaneously and said, no, you have a voice in these spaces to do that. Which is why I think only every year after that moment was I got stronger and stronger in my convictions to not let anybody tell me what I could or could not do whether it was an education or any time in my life. And I just kind of still hold on to those words today. Any time it comes up that someone says, oh, I don't think you can do that. I hear my grandma in the back of my mind going, you can do anything and don't let anybody tell you, you can't.
00:10:56
KS: God bless grandmothers, right?
RF: Absolutely.
00:10:59
KW: Yes, definitely. I can relate to some of that growing into our advocacy self, especially like that late elementary, middle school passage of life when like your whole brain is opening up that you kind of thought about one way and it's sort of more innocent childlike frame of mind suddenly gains depth and complexity and hardship sometimes. And I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about some of the middle school struggles that you were telling me about before and how they shaped you.
RF: For sure. Middle school, as I'm sure everybody knows, is a tough time for everybody. No
matter where you're from, middle school is complicated and mine was no different. One of the most wild times I had in middle school was during gym, which wasn't my favorite class ever, but it was one that we all had to do. So I would go even though half the time I would spend doing more of a study hall when I couldn't really easily participate in some of the sessions that they had. But one that they always had us do was the presidential fitness test that we did every year, which I couldn't do probably 90% of the presidential fitness tests like well or at all. But the one section I could do was the push-ups section. I have very strong upper body strength. Not so much anymore, but back in my younger days when I used a walker for a majority of my mobility, I would use my arms to move around. So my arms were very strong from carrying my whole body all day. So needless to say, you can put me on the floor and I could do over a hundred push-ups in a minute with perfect form and in like the full style. Like I love doing push-ups and I like felt so good about myself for how good I was at push-ups because every other aspect of gym class I was not good at but I was really good at that. So good that the phys ed teacher actually was like, hey I'm going to use you as my example student for the perfect push-up. of like how to align your body perfectly and how to do it right and for somebody like me whose physical body mostly doesn't ever do what I want it to to have somebody say in this moment your body is a show of like perfection was a big highlight for me. So I did that and it was great. Flash forward to a couple days later, we were revisiting the topic and I was told by that same teacher that he had gotten calls from students' parents, those students happened to be boys in my class, that called and said, hey, you can't be using her as an example because my son was upset. that you were using the girl with a disability to show off the perfect pushup and not them. And so I was told at that point that I was no longer allowed to be the example student because I had hurt feelings of the boys in my class because it was me and not them. That one hurt me. I think that one still hurts me a little bit to this day because I'm in my thirties now and I still remember that moment extremely vividly. I was like realizing that even something as simple as doing push-ups in gym class would lead to somebody in my class doing something like that to show them even though I couldn't do anything else in class I could do that and they didn't
appreciate that I had showed them up in some way.
00:14:37
KW: That's quite an intro to ableism and sexism like in one shot.
RF: Yes, for sure. It makes me sad even to this day.
00:14:45
KS: I mean, talk about teachable moments, not only for the boys, but for the parents and for the gym teacher as well. Who's protecting who in that situation? And, you know, I can't imagine it did those boys any favors in their adult life by learning that lesson. But in a way, as a transition, I would say you are paying it forward in a really cool and awesome way. And I love the work that you do and the service work that you do for young people with disabilities. And we've talked a lot about our camp times during the summer where we go off and explore and have adventures with our like-minded disabled groups. And I wonder if you could talk about some of that work and the advocacy that you do for young people and where it's led for you today in that involvement and some of those lessons that you learned, you know, albeit painful as a child and how that kind of informs your practice with this camp and your service to your community.
RF: So I work with an organization called Wisconsin Youth Leadership Forum. I’ve been a part
of it in some capacity since 2011 when I myself was a delegate. It changed my life in that
moment. It gave me a new community of people because the theme of the camp is that you're spending a week away from home in a college campus in dorm rooms with other students with disabilities who are high school age and you spend the week learning about advocacy not only for yourself but also for future planning and goals for your career and how to achieve that, and the best thing about YLF is that they also majority of the staff is also persons with disabilities. So you have all students with disabilities, and I would say probably 90% of the staff has some form of disability as well, and we're all just working together, and it's beautiful as a delegate, you get to not only meet more students with disabilities, but you also get to meet and witness staff with disabilities, working hard and doing some really cool things and I think that can be really powerful to see from both sides of not only are you participating in this camp, but people like you are running this camp. I think that just makes it even more powerful. The whole week is about building community, growing together, thinking about your future because most of these kids are one to three years at most away from graduating high school. And so their future is kind of in their hands. Do I want to go to college? Do I want to go straight into the workforce? And whatever their goals are, you know, we're sometimes one of the first people who has them really thinking about it beyond like you know the high school guidance counselor that might just have like their standard script of things that they give every student you know we're really saying no what do you want to do let's let's really talk about your goals and like what do you need what supports do you need to be able to achieve this career that you want whatever that may be and like showing them that the doors aren't closed to anything as long as and there are people out there that can support them and for so many of these kids we've been they've told us like oh i've never really thought about it because nobody asked me or you have some who have really thought about it but they're like i want to do this thing but i don't know how and i don't know who to ask for help and in this seven days together You know, we're talking with these 20 plus students about this and watching them grow and build community with each other. And it's honestly one of the most amazing things that I get to be a part of, not only as a staff member during the week, but I'm also a board member. I'm actually the president of the board at the moment. So I get to really make sure that this organization is successful and continues to grow for years to come because it is truly so important to me because I've seen the impact it can have not only as a delegate, but as somebody who's worked on staff and made connections with young people who I still am connected with today and like, you know, check on them and see how they're doing. And we have past graduates who, you know, are going to legislative meetings or going to talk to their senators or getting careers in spaces where they can use their voice for others with disabilities and knowing that they came through our program and many of them say, you know, I might not have done this legislative talk had I not been in YLF. That was the spark that they needed. And I would say personally for me that that was a spark that I needed back in 2011 as I was getting ready to graduate high school was like the first time that I did advocacy that wasn't just for myself or for like other people in my direct circle where I had met people outside of my small town and realize that there was a whole world of young people and adults doing really great things to better the lives of people with disabilities. And I wanted to be a part of that somehow. Like that's where it really, really clicked in for me that this was going to be a part of my life for the rest of my life.
00:20:08
KW: Well, and that's such a powerful message for people, young people with disabilities or anyone with disabilities to hear and internalize because, you know, I think many, many programs may be well-meaning but might communicate a very different message like, oh, we expect you only in these sorts of jobs or, you know, so that's really powerful that you really absorb what people want to be and are trying to figure out how to help them. When you think about your own journey of getting a job, were there any challenges in getting a job that aligned with your skills and your values?
RF: Yeah. I think the working world is complicated for most people, but like with many things, ableism exists. And I found there to be plenty of ableism when it came to starting my career in the working world. I knew right away that I needed to get a degree because every job that I thought I'd be interested in needed one to like to make that career work. And I knew that I was not only battling for a job in general, but that I had to, or at least I felt, this is my personal feeling, I would say it's not necessarily true for everybody, but personally for me, I felt I needed to be even better than the average person, even at a basic job, because I had to make them forget about my chair. I had to make them see that I was worth the time and the money, regardless of my mode of getting around space. And so I went to school and I did well, and went out and got a job. I mean, I will say my degree probably wasn't the smartest choice if I actually wanted to say it and have somebody understand what it was and give me a job for it. If I'm being honest, it was definitely a liberal arts degree with a name that wasn't helpful. I have technically a community leadership and development degree. Nobody knows what that is, but.
00:22:13
KW: basically... Oh, it does resonate from your camp, though.
RF: It does, yes. The better way to say it is non-profit management degree is what I have. So I started working in non-profit spaces, found my way in through City Year, which is an AmeriCorps program. That was the first, like, quote-unquote big girl job that I had was my City Year job, which was just a sad little stipend that got me moved to Texas, where I spent a year working in a school in San Antonio with sixth graders in English, and it was wild. Those kids were amazing. I loved them. They were why I got up every morning at 4 a.m. and braved wild transit systems to get to them to make sure that I was there for them and it was great, but I had to do a stipend job where I wasn't really making any money and I was just kind of working to exist to kind of start to get noticed in career spaces. It was my first way of finding my way into a role that worked with my degree and paid me to do something. After that, I went into other nonprofit roles that started to slowly see my experience. Most places I worked, I would start at the very, very bottom, you know, and then somebody would recognize that I had a skill and I'd be like, Oh, do you want to move into this next tier? and do other things. And the other answer was always, yes, I want to do more. Yes, I like to do things. Please let me do things. And then I would work my way through. So I kind of learned for a while that that was how my career path was going to go. It was a lot of people not really seeing me, but feeling like, oh, she's got something. There's something there. So let's put her in and we'll see how she does, and see where it goes. You know, I wasn't always ideal and I wanted more for myself, but I think it's safe to say that after, you know, over a decade of really trying to find a workplace that saw me for me and didn't just, you know, throw me a bone because my resume was decent, that finally I realized that I had enough under my belt and had the passion that I needed and applied for. a job at Tamman and Chax and found my way here. I will say I manifested this job in my own way because I loved Article 19 and ChaxChat and just wanted to work here so bad that put my resume out and just crossed my fingers and but we're here today so it's proof that you can manifest your own dreams if you really try hard.
00:24:53
KW: Seriously I mean the story is incredible and let me just back up a tiny bit and you know
when I think about your life compared to mine as a blind person, you know, but both of us
having experienced disability from the beginning is, you know, it's really interesting when I think about you heading into a building or a house and maybe in a lot of cases, they tell
themselves at least that they're grandfathered in, they don't really need to make an accessible building for you or, you know, they think it's for you and not just for everybody. and like that's the challenge but it's so pervasive in our society that many people don't even notice until they're confronted with it and you know but when I think of what your work is which is to you take a document that maybe somebody thought was grandfathered in, and you're stripping away those barriers to the building for someone like me. And I don't know, I'm just really fascinated by your commitment to erasing barriers. And I wondered if you could talk a little bit about how you got into that checks thing specifically.
RF: So I didn't start out as a document specialist. That wasn't where I thought I would end up. but it just so happened that I was working at a non-profit. I was in their development department doing fundraising and things when I overheard them say, hey, we need to start making our documents accessible because, you know, the laws are changing and it's really important that we're doing that. Do we know anybody who can do that on our team? Because we need somebody. And needless to say, I didn't know how to do it, but I was very quick to raise my hand and go, I like to learn. I'll learn, I don't know what this is, but I'll learn how to do this. And that's how I found Article 19 and ChaxChat and started learning how to do document accessibility from nothing and found out very quickly that I loved making documents accessible. That the process of walking through the tags tree and making tags for a document so that it reads in a way that if you can't see it, that it makes sense and you can still understand the information. I thought that was so powerful and so important to be able to do that. And the fact that people didn't recognize that as a thing that was necessary, unless somebody asked for it, like really hit home for me. And that's when I decided I needed to be a part of a company like Tamman and Chax that saw how important that type of work was. So I worked hard and learned as much as I could and I continue to learn to this day and I'm grateful that I'm now part of the Chax family in the way that I can continue my learning and growing and now also help others learn a passion for making documents and the web accessible for people because you don't know what you don't know. I think that's the beauty of the work that we do is not only do we make documents accessible and we know how to do that, but we provide education on how to make those things accessible and to see, you know, when we're teaching classes, that spark that happens. And you can see it finally clicks for the person on the other side of that screen of like, Oh, this is why it's important. Like when we finally say the thing that helps them. really see the benefit of doing the work because it's not always the most glamorous job and sometimes it's hard and a document is complicated and you're spending hours fighting the tags tree, but when you get it
just right and it sounds good and it makes sense and you know that when I pass this off to
somebody they're going to be able to read it and understand it in a meaningful way. It makes me happy. Every time I finish a document and it sounds good I get excited and that's why I love my job so much because I just know that what I'm doing it means something to somebody else besides me.Like whoever is going to read it is going to have a good experience and I played even a small part in that journey.
00:29:05
KS: I love how it's your joy for the work is really infectious. And I think, you know, our listeners would be interested in sort of learning the hard skills and also the soft skills. You talk about like patience and fortitude, like getting through the document. And, you know, I think some of that is ingrained in your personality and, you know, your 100 pushups. And also, you know, thinking about some of those hard skills of like, what did you need to learn in order to become a document accessibility specialist? Did it start with Adobe and then InDesign or did you have to learn a little bit about the design tools first and then get into like the tags tree and sort of what is, I guess, the code at the back end of a document? Because I think, you know, some people just think of a document as a document and they don't really realize that there's a way you can manipulate it. And it's never locked, right? And that whole, like, once you create a PDF, it's locked for good. And, you know, at Chax, we unlock a lot of documents. So yeah, I wondered if you could talk a little bit about that, because you could be without even meaning to planting a seed in a lot of our listeners mind, like, Oh, maybe this is something I can do.
RF: Absolutely.So getting started, I did focus mostly on learning Adobe and the basics of like
what making a document accessible meant in that space.Because I would say still to this day, about 90% of the documents we see on a regular basis are going to be PDFs. You know, we have some source files as well, but my early days, it was very much focused on getting the PDF to be accessible because most of them, even if they were originally created as a Word doc, the final results were PDFs. So starting there is that's usually the gateway.I think, I think it's a, it's a smart way to get your feet wet in the world of accessibility is starting in the PDF. And for me, it was actually Chad's LinkedIn learning course is where I got started. And that went over a little bit of everything. Went over a lot of PDF, a little bit of Word, a little bit of all the basics you need to know. to kind of get started. And I mean, I think the best way to start is create your first tag, you know, watch the video on, you know, where do you find the tag street and what's the process of highlighting the content and creating that first tag. And I think it starts from there is just kind of learning about the heading structure and you know, why headings matter and. and if you can at least give a document some headings and some paragraphs, it's better than it was with no tags. There's a lot more steps to it, but if you can start there and if you find that interesting and you liked the process of that, then you might have a new little career on your hands. And it's definitely something that is so important and meaningful that, you know, it's, if you enjoy it, it's worth doing. I will say, honestly, I've talked to people about the work that I do offhandedly, whether it's my family or friends who ask what I do for work. And I try to explain that I spend my day adding tags to documents that can be anywhere from one page to hundreds of pages long. and that sometimes a document can take me hours or days and I say that story and I tell them how I make a list and it requires a list and a list item and an L body and a label tag and their eyes get big and then gloss over and go And I go, yeah, but it's so satisfying when that list is done and it looks good and it sounds good. And, you know, a lot of my friends go, you have the mind for this. I can't imagine the work that you do every day. And people say to me, I don't think I would enjoy the work that you're doing.
00:33:02
KW: Well, a lot of people don't understand that what a document looks like and what it sounds like can be very different experiences. They think it's very similar. They don't mean to not make it accessible, but they're just like, hey, if I make this font big, then it's a heading. It's like, no. It's a very basic example.
RF: But it's true.
00:33:23
KW: A list needs a list tag, but nobody who looks at a list would necessarily figure that out.
KS: Yeah, it would almost be like going back to elementary school and working in graph paper when you were doing math problems. Like, I always sort of wonder, like, we'll just take Microsoft Word, for example, like, couldn't they have a toggle that you could toggle back and forth and sort of see the tags tree as you're building the document? So it's like, it's built into the software in a sense that there, you're seeing the structure in real time as you're writing it. So it's sort of like the equation is laid out. And then it also brings that awareness. Because I think what all of these software companies did is they tried to make all of these systems look like a notebook, or like a real like you're writing on a pad of paper, right to sort of simulate like, it can be just as good as writing or transcribing or whatever. and disguising all of the tech, wherein the tech is what is so important for the accessibility components too. I sort of was having that thought because oftentimes I feel like in technology, they're just always trying to simulate the real environment in some way. It never quite looks or works. Forget about AI, but just like some of these like old school models that we're still working with. And yeah, I think it would be really interesting to be able to see the back end a little bit more.
RF: For sure. I mean, I just wish looking back that more of these systems thought about
accessibility at the beginning instead of having to be retroactive about it at the end. I mean, I'm grateful that Microsoft accessibility is part of their mantra and they are making steps to make it better and make it more efficient. Um, in terms of accessibility, but I think, you know, one of our biggest. Motto that Chax has to think about accessibility at the beginning, before you even start designing that document is to consider the accessibility within it before you get to the end. Because when you think about accessibility at the end, it can be so much more complicated to implement that accessibility. But if you think about it at the beginning and throughout the process, your whole project becomes more beautiful and easier to make beautiful in accessibility space because there is that misnomer that accessibility means not pretty. That does not have to be the case as long as you're considering it from the beginning rather than having to retroactively correct it at the end.
00:35:57
KS: Yeah, that's really important.I would say you wear a lot of hats at Chax, even though your
title is Document Accessibility Specialist, that you're embedded in the culture and community at Tamman. You help lead the study group. You're also a trainer, you know, an educator. So I
wondered if you could kind of walk through, I guess, like a work week. So, you know, dealing
with clients, getting into documents, because I think a lot of a lot of what you do is building from the strength and that scaffolding that you learned, you know, almost kind of from the nonprofit world where you kind of have to do everything, especially if you're tiny, but mighty.
RF: Right.
KS: And so, yeah. Can you talk us through that work week? or work day, depending on what the day is.
RF: Yeah. Sure. So my average week, I probably spend a good portion of my time doing quality assurance or QA. So I'm working with documents that are provided by our client and I'm adding tags or, you know, working with the team to have tags added to the document. And then we go at the end and we listen to all of our documents to make sure they sound good because sometimes tags can be deceptive. They can look great. But sometimes how they sound isn't always perfect, so you've got to make sure you listen to your documents. So I spend a good bit of my time listening to documents.When I'm not listening to documents, it likely means I am either providing technical assistance in a training for another trainer, or I might be teaching my own training, whether it's individualized for one of our clients, or I'm teaching a drop-in class. And then when I'm not doing those things,it probably means I'm in a book talk or another fun culture-based activity within Tamman and Chax and doing work there as well. So like those are my three main things that I spend my week doing and I love all of them equally and I will say there's more that I could do, can do, sometimes get thrown in to new projects on a whim, but I am not somebody who likes to say no because even now when I have work to do. I like being busy and I like learning new things and like supporting my team as best as possible because all these new things that I can learn just ensure that our work is done well and in a timely manner that I appreciate. Working with the amazing team that we've built, Tamman and Chax, I think just makes that easier too. when I love being able to step away for an hour once a month to go to a book talk. And like, we get to just enjoy each other's company and talk about books. And the fact that that's part of the culture of the workplace is such a beautiful thing. Because not everywhere can you say, oh, it's part of my work day at least once a month to go and talk about a book. Or I happen to run a board game session in the evenings on Monday nights once a week. It's after hours, but I have created an online board game group that we meet, you know, for an hour once a week and play a board game together. It's those little moments that make the work that keeps me busy even extra special because I have a great community of people who care about the work as much as I do, but then we can also enjoy each other's company.
00:39:18
KW: Yeah, I felt so lucky and like a little bit bowled over too, to be honest. Like how did the
entire company, how is everybody such a nice, caring person? And like, you know, we're not all the same, but you know, that I felt very lucky that I've landed among such a great community of people. And I just wondered if there's anything you're looking forward to next year in, well, this year, by the time the podcast comes out in 2026, you know, just like a goal that you have or, skills that you're working on or anything that you're looking forward to? That's fun.
RF: Well, I mean, in general, I'm just looking forward to what next year brings. I think we have a lot of cool plans on the horizon. I'm continuing to work with the amazing collection of clients that I have that consider me their main person and building those connections even further. I am really looking forward to, I'm teaching more drop-in classes in 2026, so I will be taking over a lot of the introductory classes of, you know, how to make a document accessible in Adobe and how to test with a screen reader are some of the classes that I'll be taking lead on in 2026, which feels very special and a great opportunity because, you know, these are classes that Chad and Dax created and have fostered for a long time now and the fact that they're willing to pass these classes along to me feels very, very special and something that I will cherish the fact that I earned their trust to take over these classes and help continue to teach new people in the accessibility space how to make documents accessible is a big dream for me. I'm looking forward to what that will mean for me in the next year. Even if it means doing less quality assurance all the time and more teaching, that's great. It's not something I ever thought I would have as a job. is to do, like, direct teaching to people, even though everybody always told me that I should be a teacher someday. I said I never wanted to have a class full of children that looked up to me, but now I can have a Zoom class full of adults. So I think it's the step in a direction that I didn't expect, but I'm so excited to get started on in 2026.
00:41:25
KW: We're thrilled that we get to work with you every day, every week, and I can imagine, I
haven't talked to Chad and Dax about it personally, but just knowing, you know, how much
you've worked on your CPACC, which is the Certification in Accessibility Core Competencies,
and then the ADS, which is the document certification that Chad and Dax basically helped to
design the exam for. And now that you are one of those crowned with it, you know, I'm sure that they're just over the moon excited about that and that you can help them grow what they've started.
RF: I hope so.
00:42:00
KS: Well, Raquella, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and opening yourself up to all of our questions and being really vulnerable. And I so appreciate it.
RF: I'm so happy to be here.
00:42:13
KS: I know we said at the beginning of the podcast that we were getting the band back together, but I have some news. I am transitioning away from Chax Training and Consulting and Article 19 to take on a new position as Community and Programs Director of the West Collection in Philadelphia. I'm very excited and also a bit melancholy to be leaving all of you behind because this has been...
KW: We’ll miss you Katie.
00:42:41
KS: I know, I know it's been such a wonderful year and a half, and I've developed such
incredible friendships and relationships that I know will continue, especially among the three of you, Markus, you two in the back. But I thought, while we're here and while we're in this
episode, it might be a good opportunity to, you know, literally get down on one knee, since I
can't physically, and propose to you, Raquella, will you merry, your skills with the crew at Article 19 and take over as co-host of this podcast.
RF: Wow. I have dreamed of a day like this for years now, since I started listening to Article 19. I would love the opportunity to join Kristen and Marcus on this adventure for sure. Thank you.
00:43:34
KW: We would love it. And it really is the Article 19 pattern. You talk on it for one episode and then all of a sudden you're hosting. Katie and I both went through that. We would love for you to continue our wonderful Article 19 traditions.
RF: I look forward to it. Absolutely.
00:43:49
KS: Awesome. Well, and I, you can't get rid of me too easily. I will be back in any capacity that is needed or whatever. It's a revolving door open door. I don't know whatever we want to call it, but you can't get rid of me.
KW: Yeah, no, it's all a cycle. So we know that you'll. do great things in your new role, and we're really excited to hear about your journey. And always, you're always welcome back. We might even interview you for the next episode. We have no idea what we're doing yet, so.
00:44:16
KS: Awesome. Well, thanks again, and I can't wait to hear the next episode for Raquella and
Kristen.
KW: Thank you so much, Raquella Freeman, for sharing your lived experience and your journey with us. And also, deep thanks to Rose Bleasner, Taylor Kellar, Rob Underwood, and Walt Zielinski for offering their thoughts on accessibility for the episode. Our producer is Markus Goldman, and Katie Samson and Kristen Witucki co-hosted this episode. You can find any of us on LinkedIn.Just hit us up with your ideas or your thoughts about future episodes. Article 19 is a call for others to join us in a bigger conversation around the ADA, accessibility, and access to information. We are working to build the inclusive world every day. And to do that, we need all of us working together and learning together. Thank you so much for listening and being a part of our journey. Take care.
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By Tamman-Article 19 Team
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Article 19 is back! After a hibernation, we're ready to bloom again. Listen to Katie and Kristen interview longtime listener, first time caller, Raquella Freeman, as she shares her disability journey with us. While ableism and sexism tried to keep her down, Raquella leaned hard on the voices that lifted her up and is now an advocate for those who follow.
At the end of the episode, Katie gives Raquella a unique gift, and Raquella undergoes a surprise metamorphosis.
Listen wherever you get your podcasts.
Learn more about web accessibility at Tammaninc.com and document accessibility, and accessibility training and consulting at ChaxTC.com.
00:00:00,171
Article 19 Intro Recording: Expression is one of the most powerful tools we have. A voice, a
pen, a keyboard.
Eleanor Roosevelt Recording: “The real change which must give to people throughout the world their human rights must come about in the hearts of people. We must want our fellow human beings to have rights and freedoms which give them dignity.”
Article 19 Recording: Article 19 is the voice in the room. (tech Music bed)
00:00:25
Walt Zielinski: So for me, the moment that I realized digital accessibility was something I wanted to learn more about was when it dawned on me that the same sort of fight for gay rights and being visibly queer was sort of the same exact fight being fought for people with disabilities. Accessibility is all about championing people whose voices are inherently, by society, stifled or shut down because they exist outside of the typical space. And when I realized that it was all part of the same fight, that my fight for religious freedom, for queer liberation, was the same as the fight for disability rights, it became very obvious that it was something that I had to pursue in some way.
00:01:23
Rose Bliesner: I was drawn into digital accessibility when I first met people who worked in this space. When I learned that digital accessibility was something that people had careers in and
something that people dedicated their lives to, I was intrigued. I met several accessibility
professionals and learned that they are the most empathetic, most passionate people, and that they really, really love what they do. And so their enthusiasm for their craft really motivated me to educate myself on how to make the world more accessible. And I have loved every minute of it.
00:01:55
Rob Underwood: When I got hired by Chax to remediate InDesign documents for assistive
technologies it was the very first time I realized that digital accessibility was something that I
wanted to learn more about. I've been teaching InDesign for 20 years, but I never knew how to make an accessible document. When I was hired, I was taught the process of document
remediation in small, incremental steps at first. I learned about the importance of headings and document structure. Once we got into color contrast, tables, and the pack checker, I understood the importance of the job we were performing, and how accessibility wasn't a nice-to-have, it was a must. The real aha moment for me was the first time DAX showed us what the documents we created sounded like with a screen reader. For the first time, I could finally grasp how people interact with assistive technology. It was then that I realized that my skillset could provide value to the team and that I wanted to learn everything I could about document remediation. Being part of a team that is at the forefront of accessibility makes me feel good about the work I'm doing. For the first time in my life, I feel like I'm working at a job that gives me purpose.
00:03:07
Taylor Kellar: When I first started working for Chax, I had a very vague understanding as to what digital accessibility meant. I thought that because technology was ever evolving, that
accessibility was something that was already being automatically considered. It wasn't until I
realized that programs that I use as an able-bodied individual, like Microsoft Word and Adobe Acrobat, have barriers that my coworkers who don't utilize technology in the same way have trouble accessing. What inspires me to learn more about digital accessibility is my co-workers. I feel very lucky that I get a first-hand experience learning tips and tricks on how to make my own content more accessible, and as a world that's primarily online, I think we owe it to ourselves to make content accessible for everyone.
00:03:51
Katie Samson, (cohost): Hello, everyone, and welcome to Article 19. What's up, Kristen?
Kristen Witucki, (cohost): Oh, it's been a minute, Katie. We're, you know, we've taken a little
break, and it's really great to be back with you again and with our producer, Markus Goldman.
00:04:06
KS: Yes, we got the band back together.
KW: Yeah, we did.
KS: We're going to have some great music, some awesome topics coming up in 2026. And we figured we'd start a little bit easy, starting internal to Tammann and Chax.
00:04:20
KW: with our most ardent listener, our loyalist fan, perhaps our only downloader, but
nevertheless, she's been there through it all and a lot more.
KS: So let's bring her in. Welcome everyone to the kickoff of 2026. Article 19. Raquella
Freeman. Hello.
Raquella Freeman: Hi, everyone.
KS: So glad to have you with us.
RF: Long time listener, First time caller. Thank you. So excited to be here and be a part of this
for sure.
00:04:53
KS: Raquella, can you tell our listeners where you are situated right now?
RF: So I am in Green Bay, Wisconsin. It is the heat of winter, which means it's about negative
something out there right now. And I think we're about to have a snowstorm beginning tonight and into tomorrow.
00:05:11
KW: So you mean another snowstorm, right? Another snowstorm. Not the first snowstorm.
RF: Correct. We had our first snowstorm last week, so this will be our second snowstorm, and
it's only the second week of December, so we're doing great.
00:05:26
KS: Wow. Those Wisconsinners, you guys really earn your seasons, I gotta say.
RF: Yes. We spend most of our time in winter, and we really look forward to those three months of summer.
00:05:38
KS: Well, it's so great to have you with us and to kick off what I think is going to be, you know, an exciting year for us. We've got a little bit more flexibility to explore some topics. You know, you're one of our faves. So we had to do the call out first. Kristen, you want to kick us off with a softball question?
KW: Yeah, yeah. Well, Maybe not the softballs, I don't know. Softballs are hard, though. I've
been hit with one. So let's just start at the beginning. If you think about your family, Raquella, and your beginnings, because this is going to sound sort of random, but it all leads to the great pinnacle of you being with us now. When you think back to your, you know, your birth and your early childhood, how do you think your parents would have described those early years and how did they discover or diagnose your disability needs?
00:06:33
RF: That's a fun question. My early years were really complicated. I had health conditions right away. I was born about a month, almost two months early, and this was in the early nineties. So medical practice wasn't what it is today. And I had health complications, spent over a month in the hospital, and they weren't sure you know, what would happen after having a brain bleed. You know, they had no way of knowing what my life would be like until I grew up a little bit. And then as the years went on, my parents tell me that I was a very precocious child, like I was talking circles around them even starting as early as three years old. I could tell you about everything that ever happened and I wanted to tell you everything that I had in my head, but I couldn't sit up. So you had a child who could talk your ear off, but physically I was barely crawling, had limited mobility and couldn't sit up without a lot of support. So they knew something was going on, but the local doctors in my small town that I grew up in didn't know what it was. And they said, Oh, she'll catch up. Don't worry about it. She'll catch up. You know, we were getting older and my parents were like, this doesn't feel like a she'll catch up thing. So they took me to a more advanced doctor in Milwaukee, which is one of the bigger cities in Wisconsin. And they have a great children's hospital there where I met my doctor, Dr. Schwab, who diagnosed me within like a second of meeting me. They said they barely even walked into the exam room and he was like, Oh, so she has cerebral palsy. Like, let's get working on how we can support her and get her the support she needs. And it was him who, you know, helped my parents figure out what my diagnosis meant, started helping me get the medical equipment I needed to get support, get physical therapy and kind of get that process started in my life. And he was also the guy who did all of my surgeries for all of my young years, the surgeries that I've had. And he was great. Like he, he really did change my life. and like help my family and me figure out what the next steps were, but never held me back from anything I wanted to do. Just made sure that I had everything I needed to be successful.
00:08:53
KS: We've talked a lot, Raquella, about just the physical barriers that we have to face as
wheelchair users, navigating winter, navigating a lot of things. How did you learn in those early years and in your own life about all of the barriers, I guess, and then, you know, the ableism that comes with it? Did you start to see signs of that when you were a child, when you were trying to get involved in certain activities, or did it start to kind of creep in, yeah, over time?
RF: It was there pretty early. I think, you know, maybe my earliest memory of it, you know, I
was… In kindergarten, I think when I started to go to school was when I noticed students
treating me differently and people not knowing how to interact with me. Like that's how it began early on. And I had to learn very quickly that like this was going to be part of life for me and how to navigate that space, which I credit my grandmother for. giving me the words to work in those spaces, which because she was the one who told me, hey, people aren't going to understand how capable you are. They might make fun of you, but what's most important is that you just show them that you're just like they are. And then maybe you need a little support. Like she gave me the language to be like, Hey, you know, don't make fun of me. Like I'm good. Like gave me the strength to stop people from putting me down instantaneously and said, no, you have a voice in these spaces to do that. Which is why I think only every year after that moment was I got stronger and stronger in my convictions to not let anybody tell me what I could or could not do whether it was an education or any time in my life. And I just kind of still hold on to those words today. Any time it comes up that someone says, oh, I don't think you can do that. I hear my grandma in the back of my mind going, you can do anything and don't let anybody tell you, you can't.
00:10:56
KS: God bless grandmothers, right?
RF: Absolutely.
00:10:59
KW: Yes, definitely. I can relate to some of that growing into our advocacy self, especially like that late elementary, middle school passage of life when like your whole brain is opening up that you kind of thought about one way and it's sort of more innocent childlike frame of mind suddenly gains depth and complexity and hardship sometimes. And I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about some of the middle school struggles that you were telling me about before and how they shaped you.
RF: For sure. Middle school, as I'm sure everybody knows, is a tough time for everybody. No
matter where you're from, middle school is complicated and mine was no different. One of the most wild times I had in middle school was during gym, which wasn't my favorite class ever, but it was one that we all had to do. So I would go even though half the time I would spend doing more of a study hall when I couldn't really easily participate in some of the sessions that they had. But one that they always had us do was the presidential fitness test that we did every year, which I couldn't do probably 90% of the presidential fitness tests like well or at all. But the one section I could do was the push-ups section. I have very strong upper body strength. Not so much anymore, but back in my younger days when I used a walker for a majority of my mobility, I would use my arms to move around. So my arms were very strong from carrying my whole body all day. So needless to say, you can put me on the floor and I could do over a hundred push-ups in a minute with perfect form and in like the full style. Like I love doing push-ups and I like felt so good about myself for how good I was at push-ups because every other aspect of gym class I was not good at but I was really good at that. So good that the phys ed teacher actually was like, hey I'm going to use you as my example student for the perfect push-up. of like how to align your body perfectly and how to do it right and for somebody like me whose physical body mostly doesn't ever do what I want it to to have somebody say in this moment your body is a show of like perfection was a big highlight for me. So I did that and it was great. Flash forward to a couple days later, we were revisiting the topic and I was told by that same teacher that he had gotten calls from students' parents, those students happened to be boys in my class, that called and said, hey, you can't be using her as an example because my son was upset. that you were using the girl with a disability to show off the perfect pushup and not them. And so I was told at that point that I was no longer allowed to be the example student because I had hurt feelings of the boys in my class because it was me and not them. That one hurt me. I think that one still hurts me a little bit to this day because I'm in my thirties now and I still remember that moment extremely vividly. I was like realizing that even something as simple as doing push-ups in gym class would lead to somebody in my class doing something like that to show them even though I couldn't do anything else in class I could do that and they didn't
appreciate that I had showed them up in some way.
00:14:37
KW: That's quite an intro to ableism and sexism like in one shot.
RF: Yes, for sure. It makes me sad even to this day.
00:14:45
KS: I mean, talk about teachable moments, not only for the boys, but for the parents and for the gym teacher as well. Who's protecting who in that situation? And, you know, I can't imagine it did those boys any favors in their adult life by learning that lesson. But in a way, as a transition, I would say you are paying it forward in a really cool and awesome way. And I love the work that you do and the service work that you do for young people with disabilities. And we've talked a lot about our camp times during the summer where we go off and explore and have adventures with our like-minded disabled groups. And I wonder if you could talk about some of that work and the advocacy that you do for young people and where it's led for you today in that involvement and some of those lessons that you learned, you know, albeit painful as a child and how that kind of informs your practice with this camp and your service to your community.
RF: So I work with an organization called Wisconsin Youth Leadership Forum. I’ve been a part
of it in some capacity since 2011 when I myself was a delegate. It changed my life in that
moment. It gave me a new community of people because the theme of the camp is that you're spending a week away from home in a college campus in dorm rooms with other students with disabilities who are high school age and you spend the week learning about advocacy not only for yourself but also for future planning and goals for your career and how to achieve that, and the best thing about YLF is that they also majority of the staff is also persons with disabilities. So you have all students with disabilities, and I would say probably 90% of the staff has some form of disability as well, and we're all just working together, and it's beautiful as a delegate, you get to not only meet more students with disabilities, but you also get to meet and witness staff with disabilities, working hard and doing some really cool things and I think that can be really powerful to see from both sides of not only are you participating in this camp, but people like you are running this camp. I think that just makes it even more powerful. The whole week is about building community, growing together, thinking about your future because most of these kids are one to three years at most away from graduating high school. And so their future is kind of in their hands. Do I want to go to college? Do I want to go straight into the workforce? And whatever their goals are, you know, we're sometimes one of the first people who has them really thinking about it beyond like you know the high school guidance counselor that might just have like their standard script of things that they give every student you know we're really saying no what do you want to do let's let's really talk about your goals and like what do you need what supports do you need to be able to achieve this career that you want whatever that may be and like showing them that the doors aren't closed to anything as long as and there are people out there that can support them and for so many of these kids we've been they've told us like oh i've never really thought about it because nobody asked me or you have some who have really thought about it but they're like i want to do this thing but i don't know how and i don't know who to ask for help and in this seven days together You know, we're talking with these 20 plus students about this and watching them grow and build community with each other. And it's honestly one of the most amazing things that I get to be a part of, not only as a staff member during the week, but I'm also a board member. I'm actually the president of the board at the moment. So I get to really make sure that this organization is successful and continues to grow for years to come because it is truly so important to me because I've seen the impact it can have not only as a delegate, but as somebody who's worked on staff and made connections with young people who I still am connected with today and like, you know, check on them and see how they're doing. And we have past graduates who, you know, are going to legislative meetings or going to talk to their senators or getting careers in spaces where they can use their voice for others with disabilities and knowing that they came through our program and many of them say, you know, I might not have done this legislative talk had I not been in YLF. That was the spark that they needed. And I would say personally for me that that was a spark that I needed back in 2011 as I was getting ready to graduate high school was like the first time that I did advocacy that wasn't just for myself or for like other people in my direct circle where I had met people outside of my small town and realize that there was a whole world of young people and adults doing really great things to better the lives of people with disabilities. And I wanted to be a part of that somehow. Like that's where it really, really clicked in for me that this was going to be a part of my life for the rest of my life.
00:20:08
KW: Well, and that's such a powerful message for people, young people with disabilities or anyone with disabilities to hear and internalize because, you know, I think many, many programs may be well-meaning but might communicate a very different message like, oh, we expect you only in these sorts of jobs or, you know, so that's really powerful that you really absorb what people want to be and are trying to figure out how to help them. When you think about your own journey of getting a job, were there any challenges in getting a job that aligned with your skills and your values?
RF: Yeah. I think the working world is complicated for most people, but like with many things, ableism exists. And I found there to be plenty of ableism when it came to starting my career in the working world. I knew right away that I needed to get a degree because every job that I thought I'd be interested in needed one to like to make that career work. And I knew that I was not only battling for a job in general, but that I had to, or at least I felt, this is my personal feeling, I would say it's not necessarily true for everybody, but personally for me, I felt I needed to be even better than the average person, even at a basic job, because I had to make them forget about my chair. I had to make them see that I was worth the time and the money, regardless of my mode of getting around space. And so I went to school and I did well, and went out and got a job. I mean, I will say my degree probably wasn't the smartest choice if I actually wanted to say it and have somebody understand what it was and give me a job for it. If I'm being honest, it was definitely a liberal arts degree with a name that wasn't helpful. I have technically a community leadership and development degree. Nobody knows what that is, but.
00:22:13
KW: basically... Oh, it does resonate from your camp, though.
RF: It does, yes. The better way to say it is non-profit management degree is what I have. So I started working in non-profit spaces, found my way in through City Year, which is an AmeriCorps program. That was the first, like, quote-unquote big girl job that I had was my City Year job, which was just a sad little stipend that got me moved to Texas, where I spent a year working in a school in San Antonio with sixth graders in English, and it was wild. Those kids were amazing. I loved them. They were why I got up every morning at 4 a.m. and braved wild transit systems to get to them to make sure that I was there for them and it was great, but I had to do a stipend job where I wasn't really making any money and I was just kind of working to exist to kind of start to get noticed in career spaces. It was my first way of finding my way into a role that worked with my degree and paid me to do something. After that, I went into other nonprofit roles that started to slowly see my experience. Most places I worked, I would start at the very, very bottom, you know, and then somebody would recognize that I had a skill and I'd be like, Oh, do you want to move into this next tier? and do other things. And the other answer was always, yes, I want to do more. Yes, I like to do things. Please let me do things. And then I would work my way through. So I kind of learned for a while that that was how my career path was going to go. It was a lot of people not really seeing me, but feeling like, oh, she's got something. There's something there. So let's put her in and we'll see how she does, and see where it goes. You know, I wasn't always ideal and I wanted more for myself, but I think it's safe to say that after, you know, over a decade of really trying to find a workplace that saw me for me and didn't just, you know, throw me a bone because my resume was decent, that finally I realized that I had enough under my belt and had the passion that I needed and applied for. a job at Tamman and Chax and found my way here. I will say I manifested this job in my own way because I loved Article 19 and ChaxChat and just wanted to work here so bad that put my resume out and just crossed my fingers and but we're here today so it's proof that you can manifest your own dreams if you really try hard.
00:24:53
KW: Seriously I mean the story is incredible and let me just back up a tiny bit and you know
when I think about your life compared to mine as a blind person, you know, but both of us
having experienced disability from the beginning is, you know, it's really interesting when I think about you heading into a building or a house and maybe in a lot of cases, they tell
themselves at least that they're grandfathered in, they don't really need to make an accessible building for you or, you know, they think it's for you and not just for everybody. and like that's the challenge but it's so pervasive in our society that many people don't even notice until they're confronted with it and you know but when I think of what your work is which is to you take a document that maybe somebody thought was grandfathered in, and you're stripping away those barriers to the building for someone like me. And I don't know, I'm just really fascinated by your commitment to erasing barriers. And I wondered if you could talk a little bit about how you got into that checks thing specifically.
RF: So I didn't start out as a document specialist. That wasn't where I thought I would end up. but it just so happened that I was working at a non-profit. I was in their development department doing fundraising and things when I overheard them say, hey, we need to start making our documents accessible because, you know, the laws are changing and it's really important that we're doing that. Do we know anybody who can do that on our team? Because we need somebody. And needless to say, I didn't know how to do it, but I was very quick to raise my hand and go, I like to learn. I'll learn, I don't know what this is, but I'll learn how to do this. And that's how I found Article 19 and ChaxChat and started learning how to do document accessibility from nothing and found out very quickly that I loved making documents accessible. That the process of walking through the tags tree and making tags for a document so that it reads in a way that if you can't see it, that it makes sense and you can still understand the information. I thought that was so powerful and so important to be able to do that. And the fact that people didn't recognize that as a thing that was necessary, unless somebody asked for it, like really hit home for me. And that's when I decided I needed to be a part of a company like Tamman and Chax that saw how important that type of work was. So I worked hard and learned as much as I could and I continue to learn to this day and I'm grateful that I'm now part of the Chax family in the way that I can continue my learning and growing and now also help others learn a passion for making documents and the web accessible for people because you don't know what you don't know. I think that's the beauty of the work that we do is not only do we make documents accessible and we know how to do that, but we provide education on how to make those things accessible and to see, you know, when we're teaching classes, that spark that happens. And you can see it finally clicks for the person on the other side of that screen of like, Oh, this is why it's important. Like when we finally say the thing that helps them. really see the benefit of doing the work because it's not always the most glamorous job and sometimes it's hard and a document is complicated and you're spending hours fighting the tags tree, but when you get it
just right and it sounds good and it makes sense and you know that when I pass this off to
somebody they're going to be able to read it and understand it in a meaningful way. It makes me happy. Every time I finish a document and it sounds good I get excited and that's why I love my job so much because I just know that what I'm doing it means something to somebody else besides me.Like whoever is going to read it is going to have a good experience and I played even a small part in that journey.
00:29:05
KS: I love how it's your joy for the work is really infectious. And I think, you know, our listeners would be interested in sort of learning the hard skills and also the soft skills. You talk about like patience and fortitude, like getting through the document. And, you know, I think some of that is ingrained in your personality and, you know, your 100 pushups. And also, you know, thinking about some of those hard skills of like, what did you need to learn in order to become a document accessibility specialist? Did it start with Adobe and then InDesign or did you have to learn a little bit about the design tools first and then get into like the tags tree and sort of what is, I guess, the code at the back end of a document? Because I think, you know, some people just think of a document as a document and they don't really realize that there's a way you can manipulate it. And it's never locked, right? And that whole, like, once you create a PDF, it's locked for good. And, you know, at Chax, we unlock a lot of documents. So yeah, I wondered if you could talk a little bit about that, because you could be without even meaning to planting a seed in a lot of our listeners mind, like, Oh, maybe this is something I can do.
RF: Absolutely.So getting started, I did focus mostly on learning Adobe and the basics of like
what making a document accessible meant in that space.Because I would say still to this day, about 90% of the documents we see on a regular basis are going to be PDFs. You know, we have some source files as well, but my early days, it was very much focused on getting the PDF to be accessible because most of them, even if they were originally created as a Word doc, the final results were PDFs. So starting there is that's usually the gateway.I think, I think it's a, it's a smart way to get your feet wet in the world of accessibility is starting in the PDF. And for me, it was actually Chad's LinkedIn learning course is where I got started. And that went over a little bit of everything. Went over a lot of PDF, a little bit of Word, a little bit of all the basics you need to know. to kind of get started. And I mean, I think the best way to start is create your first tag, you know, watch the video on, you know, where do you find the tag street and what's the process of highlighting the content and creating that first tag. And I think it starts from there is just kind of learning about the heading structure and you know, why headings matter and. and if you can at least give a document some headings and some paragraphs, it's better than it was with no tags. There's a lot more steps to it, but if you can start there and if you find that interesting and you liked the process of that, then you might have a new little career on your hands. And it's definitely something that is so important and meaningful that, you know, it's, if you enjoy it, it's worth doing. I will say, honestly, I've talked to people about the work that I do offhandedly, whether it's my family or friends who ask what I do for work. And I try to explain that I spend my day adding tags to documents that can be anywhere from one page to hundreds of pages long. and that sometimes a document can take me hours or days and I say that story and I tell them how I make a list and it requires a list and a list item and an L body and a label tag and their eyes get big and then gloss over and go And I go, yeah, but it's so satisfying when that list is done and it looks good and it sounds good. And, you know, a lot of my friends go, you have the mind for this. I can't imagine the work that you do every day. And people say to me, I don't think I would enjoy the work that you're doing.
00:33:02
KW: Well, a lot of people don't understand that what a document looks like and what it sounds like can be very different experiences. They think it's very similar. They don't mean to not make it accessible, but they're just like, hey, if I make this font big, then it's a heading. It's like, no. It's a very basic example.
RF: But it's true.
00:33:23
KW: A list needs a list tag, but nobody who looks at a list would necessarily figure that out.
KS: Yeah, it would almost be like going back to elementary school and working in graph paper when you were doing math problems. Like, I always sort of wonder, like, we'll just take Microsoft Word, for example, like, couldn't they have a toggle that you could toggle back and forth and sort of see the tags tree as you're building the document? So it's like, it's built into the software in a sense that there, you're seeing the structure in real time as you're writing it. So it's sort of like the equation is laid out. And then it also brings that awareness. Because I think what all of these software companies did is they tried to make all of these systems look like a notebook, or like a real like you're writing on a pad of paper, right to sort of simulate like, it can be just as good as writing or transcribing or whatever. and disguising all of the tech, wherein the tech is what is so important for the accessibility components too. I sort of was having that thought because oftentimes I feel like in technology, they're just always trying to simulate the real environment in some way. It never quite looks or works. Forget about AI, but just like some of these like old school models that we're still working with. And yeah, I think it would be really interesting to be able to see the back end a little bit more.
RF: For sure. I mean, I just wish looking back that more of these systems thought about
accessibility at the beginning instead of having to be retroactive about it at the end. I mean, I'm grateful that Microsoft accessibility is part of their mantra and they are making steps to make it better and make it more efficient. Um, in terms of accessibility, but I think, you know, one of our biggest. Motto that Chax has to think about accessibility at the beginning, before you even start designing that document is to consider the accessibility within it before you get to the end. Because when you think about accessibility at the end, it can be so much more complicated to implement that accessibility. But if you think about it at the beginning and throughout the process, your whole project becomes more beautiful and easier to make beautiful in accessibility space because there is that misnomer that accessibility means not pretty. That does not have to be the case as long as you're considering it from the beginning rather than having to retroactively correct it at the end.
00:35:57
KS: Yeah, that's really important.I would say you wear a lot of hats at Chax, even though your
title is Document Accessibility Specialist, that you're embedded in the culture and community at Tamman. You help lead the study group. You're also a trainer, you know, an educator. So I
wondered if you could kind of walk through, I guess, like a work week. So, you know, dealing
with clients, getting into documents, because I think a lot of a lot of what you do is building from the strength and that scaffolding that you learned, you know, almost kind of from the nonprofit world where you kind of have to do everything, especially if you're tiny, but mighty.
RF: Right.
KS: And so, yeah. Can you talk us through that work week? or work day, depending on what the day is.
RF: Yeah. Sure. So my average week, I probably spend a good portion of my time doing quality assurance or QA. So I'm working with documents that are provided by our client and I'm adding tags or, you know, working with the team to have tags added to the document. And then we go at the end and we listen to all of our documents to make sure they sound good because sometimes tags can be deceptive. They can look great. But sometimes how they sound isn't always perfect, so you've got to make sure you listen to your documents. So I spend a good bit of my time listening to documents.When I'm not listening to documents, it likely means I am either providing technical assistance in a training for another trainer, or I might be teaching my own training, whether it's individualized for one of our clients, or I'm teaching a drop-in class. And then when I'm not doing those things,it probably means I'm in a book talk or another fun culture-based activity within Tamman and Chax and doing work there as well. So like those are my three main things that I spend my week doing and I love all of them equally and I will say there's more that I could do, can do, sometimes get thrown in to new projects on a whim, but I am not somebody who likes to say no because even now when I have work to do. I like being busy and I like learning new things and like supporting my team as best as possible because all these new things that I can learn just ensure that our work is done well and in a timely manner that I appreciate. Working with the amazing team that we've built, Tamman and Chax, I think just makes that easier too. when I love being able to step away for an hour once a month to go to a book talk. And like, we get to just enjoy each other's company and talk about books. And the fact that that's part of the culture of the workplace is such a beautiful thing. Because not everywhere can you say, oh, it's part of my work day at least once a month to go and talk about a book. Or I happen to run a board game session in the evenings on Monday nights once a week. It's after hours, but I have created an online board game group that we meet, you know, for an hour once a week and play a board game together. It's those little moments that make the work that keeps me busy even extra special because I have a great community of people who care about the work as much as I do, but then we can also enjoy each other's company.
00:39:18
KW: Yeah, I felt so lucky and like a little bit bowled over too, to be honest. Like how did the
entire company, how is everybody such a nice, caring person? And like, you know, we're not all the same, but you know, that I felt very lucky that I've landed among such a great community of people. And I just wondered if there's anything you're looking forward to next year in, well, this year, by the time the podcast comes out in 2026, you know, just like a goal that you have or, skills that you're working on or anything that you're looking forward to? That's fun.
RF: Well, I mean, in general, I'm just looking forward to what next year brings. I think we have a lot of cool plans on the horizon. I'm continuing to work with the amazing collection of clients that I have that consider me their main person and building those connections even further. I am really looking forward to, I'm teaching more drop-in classes in 2026, so I will be taking over a lot of the introductory classes of, you know, how to make a document accessible in Adobe and how to test with a screen reader are some of the classes that I'll be taking lead on in 2026, which feels very special and a great opportunity because, you know, these are classes that Chad and Dax created and have fostered for a long time now and the fact that they're willing to pass these classes along to me feels very, very special and something that I will cherish the fact that I earned their trust to take over these classes and help continue to teach new people in the accessibility space how to make documents accessible is a big dream for me. I'm looking forward to what that will mean for me in the next year. Even if it means doing less quality assurance all the time and more teaching, that's great. It's not something I ever thought I would have as a job. is to do, like, direct teaching to people, even though everybody always told me that I should be a teacher someday. I said I never wanted to have a class full of children that looked up to me, but now I can have a Zoom class full of adults. So I think it's the step in a direction that I didn't expect, but I'm so excited to get started on in 2026.
00:41:25
KW: We're thrilled that we get to work with you every day, every week, and I can imagine, I
haven't talked to Chad and Dax about it personally, but just knowing, you know, how much
you've worked on your CPACC, which is the Certification in Accessibility Core Competencies,
and then the ADS, which is the document certification that Chad and Dax basically helped to
design the exam for. And now that you are one of those crowned with it, you know, I'm sure that they're just over the moon excited about that and that you can help them grow what they've started.
RF: I hope so.
00:42:00
KS: Well, Raquella, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and opening yourself up to all of our questions and being really vulnerable. And I so appreciate it.
RF: I'm so happy to be here.
00:42:13
KS: I know we said at the beginning of the podcast that we were getting the band back together, but I have some news. I am transitioning away from Chax Training and Consulting and Article 19 to take on a new position as Community and Programs Director of the West Collection in Philadelphia. I'm very excited and also a bit melancholy to be leaving all of you behind because this has been...
KW: We’ll miss you Katie.
00:42:41
KS: I know, I know it's been such a wonderful year and a half, and I've developed such
incredible friendships and relationships that I know will continue, especially among the three of you, Markus, you two in the back. But I thought, while we're here and while we're in this
episode, it might be a good opportunity to, you know, literally get down on one knee, since I
can't physically, and propose to you, Raquella, will you merry, your skills with the crew at Article 19 and take over as co-host of this podcast.
RF: Wow. I have dreamed of a day like this for years now, since I started listening to Article 19. I would love the opportunity to join Kristen and Marcus on this adventure for sure. Thank you.
00:43:34
KW: We would love it. And it really is the Article 19 pattern. You talk on it for one episode and then all of a sudden you're hosting. Katie and I both went through that. We would love for you to continue our wonderful Article 19 traditions.
RF: I look forward to it. Absolutely.
00:43:49
KS: Awesome. Well, and I, you can't get rid of me too easily. I will be back in any capacity that is needed or whatever. It's a revolving door open door. I don't know whatever we want to call it, but you can't get rid of me.
KW: Yeah, no, it's all a cycle. So we know that you'll. do great things in your new role, and we're really excited to hear about your journey. And always, you're always welcome back. We might even interview you for the next episode. We have no idea what we're doing yet, so.
00:44:16
KS: Awesome. Well, thanks again, and I can't wait to hear the next episode for Raquella and
Kristen.
KW: Thank you so much, Raquella Freeman, for sharing your lived experience and your journey with us. And also, deep thanks to Rose Bleasner, Taylor Kellar, Rob Underwood, and Walt Zielinski for offering their thoughts on accessibility for the episode. Our producer is Markus Goldman, and Katie Samson and Kristen Witucki co-hosted this episode. You can find any of us on LinkedIn.Just hit us up with your ideas or your thoughts about future episodes. Article 19 is a call for others to join us in a bigger conversation around the ADA, accessibility, and access to information. We are working to build the inclusive world every day. And to do that, we need all of us working together and learning together. Thank you so much for listening and being a part of our journey. Take care.