In this final episode of our Voices from the Masterclass special series, Pastor Adam Durso is joined by Dr. Mark Labberton and Bishop Kenneth Ulmer for a candid and compelling conversation on leadership, worship, and the quiet weight of longevity in ministry.

Pastor Adam asks what it takes to sustain leadership over decades. Both guests agree: it’s not just anointing or skill that matters, but fruit—character, humility, and relational integrity. Dr. Labberton and Bishop Ulmer challenge the model of the isolated, burned-out leader and offer something better: space for vulnerability, mentorship, and intentional friendship. 

In a powerful and emotional turn, Bishop Ulmer opens up about the disorientation of transition, sharing what it feels like to step away from the pulpit after 41 years and adjust to a new rhythm of identity and purpose. Dr. Labberton shares how staying connected to younger leaders has kept him grounded and surprisingly useful in this next chapter of his ministry journey.

Their in-depth discussion crescendos with a shared plea for real friendship: the kind where you can share both your best and worst moments with the same person, acknowledging that while loneliness is common in ministry, it isn’t inevitable.

(02:12) Why Preaching Masterclass feels “weighty”
(09:17) The missing ingredient 
(11:14) The Brehm Center story:
(14:33) Ulmer on transition after stepping aside 
(20:36) Longevity in ministry 
(27:18) The danger of being untouchable
(33:18) The threat of honesty 

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