Should we all be software engineers? Carl and Richard talk to Chad Michel and Doug Durham about the discipline of software engineering - separate from computing science and software development. Doug and Chad discuss the elements of lean engineering in software, referencing their book Lean Software Systems Engineering for Developers. The conversation digs into what it is to focus on engineering and the role of developers within the engineering system. There's room for a range of skills in development, and as Doug says, it's important to have a diversity of experiences and viewpoints to build great software!