From The Marginlands

Parineeta Dandekar of the South Asia Network on Dams, Rivers and People (SANDRP) joins us to talk about what makes a river a river, and what happens when we treat it as plumbing. From Himalayan dams and river-linking schemes to the Godavari’s pollution crisis, we explore what our plans for rivers leave out: fish, floodplains, livelihoods, culture, tradition, songs and stories. Through it all runs Parineeta’s infectious passion for rivers, not just as ecosystems to protect, but as living relationships we are in danger of losing.

ABOUT THE GUEST:

Parineeta Dandekar is Associate Coordinator of the South Asia Network on Dams, Rivers and People (SANDRP -- https://sandrp.in/ ), which she joined in 2010 after training in environmental science at Pune University and water management at the Asian Institute of Technology and IHE Delft. She is a Member Trustee of the River Research Centre (Kerala), a member of the IUCN Freshwater Fisheries Specialist Group (South Asia), and contributes river stories from the Chenab, Ravi, Beas, Jhelum and Indus to the River Ethnographies Project at Ohio State University's Mershon Center ( https://mershoncenter.osu.edu/research/river-ethnographies ) She is based in Pune and tweets at https://x.com/Parineeta_River 

PARINEETA'S WRITINGS ON RIVERS AND CULTURE:

Her manifesto: songs, myths, poems and stories are not part of our culture -- they are our culture: https://sandrp.in/2018/02/17/rivers-are-us/

On Bhatiyali, the boatmen's songs of Bengal: https://scroll.in/article/801679/bhatiyali-a-short-survey-of-the-subcontinents-eternal-river-songs

Ekti Nadir Naam, the essay behind the 'nadi' / 'naad' etymology she discusses here: https://sandrp.in/2015/02/28/ekti-nadir-naam-ramblings-through-the-etymology-of-river-names-in-india/

Jhulelal or Zinda Pir: On river saints, fish, and flows of the Indus: https://scroll.in/article/801677/jhulelal-or-zinda-pir-of-river-saints-fish-and-flows-of-the-indus

On reading Rabindranath Tagore's Muktadhara as an early dam-decommissioning saga: https://sandrp.in/2020/01/08/he-spoke-the-language-of-the-rivers-rabindranath-tagore/

The riverscapes of Bengal through the poems of Jibananda Das: https://sandrp.in/2019/11/10/riverscapes-of-a-lonely-poet-jibanananda-das/

Swan song of a river : https://sandrp.in/2019/05/09/titash-ekti-nadir-naam-swan-song-of-a-river/ and companion piece River as Companion: https://sandrp.in/2019/05/16/river-as-a-companion-titash-ekti-nadir-naam/ on Adwaita Mallabarman's novel of the Malo fisherfolk

WRITINGS ON FREE-FLOWING RIVERS, FISH SANCTUARIES, FISHERIES:

On Meghalaya's community mahaseer sanctuaries: https://scroll.in/article/904599/many-fish-in-the-river-community-led-projects-in-meghalaya-are-helping-the-rare-mahseer-thrive

On free-flowing rivers, including the Aghanashini/Sharavathi comparison: https://www.internationalrivers.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/86/2021/01/free-flowing_rivers-sustaining_livelihoods.pdf

On Pascagoula, America's largest free-flowing river -- the source of Parineeta's definition "A free-flowing river is not an unhindered channel of flowing water, that would be a canal": https://sandrp.in/2018/10/07/the-singing-river-story-of-americas-largest-free-flowing-river/

ON HIMALAYAN DISASTERS:

On why Himalayan floods are debris events, not water events: https://sandrp.in/2026/09/03/himalayan-floods-are-not-just-a-water-event-they-are-a-debris-event/

On the Jhallma nallah and the sinking village of Lindur: https://sandrp.in/2026/07/10/flooding-under-the-scorching-sun-the-unstudied-crisis-of-himalayan-nallahs/

Parineeta's fieldwork on the Ravi: https://sandrp.in/2026/06/25/the-nowhere-land-of-ravi/

Interview where she discusses stream restoration and says "Streams don't like to be in channels" : https://sandrp.in/2018/02/08/streams-dont-like-to-be-in-channels-interview-stream-restoration-with-austin-watershed-protection-department/

BOOKS ETC:

The River Mhadei: The Science and Politics of Diversion: Contains Parineeta's chapter on the Mhadei: https://www.goa1556.in/book/the-river-mhadei/

Living Rivers, Dying Rivers: Contains her chapter 'Endangering a heritage: The rivers of Maharashtra' : https://india.oup.com/product/living-rivers-dying-rivers-9780199456222

TALKS AND INTERVIEWS:

Multi-part lecture on rivers of the Western Ghats: https://www.indiawaterportal.org/agriculture/farm/living-rivers-dying-rivers-rivers-western-ghats

NPR interview on the Trishuli disaster and the World Bank's risk assessment: https://www.npr.org/2026/09/23/g-s1-144536/floods-climate-nepal-himalayas-dams-hydropower

ALSO SEE:

Marjorie Sykes' translation of Muktadhara and other plays of Tagore: https://archive.org/details/threeplaysmuktad0000unse/page/n5/mode/1up

On Ritwick Ghatak's film adaptation of Titash Ekti Nadir Naam: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titash_Ekti_Nadir_Naam

English translation of Bibhutibhushan Bandyopadhyay's Ichhamati: https://www.parabaas.com/article.php?id=6159

EOM

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In this episode we talk to epidemiologist Ramanan Laxminarayan about what ails India's health. He makes the case that the biggest threat is the silent spread of noncommunicable disease, and that India is good at health events, but weak at the unglamorous, sustained work of public health. The conversation moves through eradication and elimination, dengue, climate extremes and heat, Nipah and bats, and antimicrobial resistance (AMR). It closes with his new book, Bacteria to Buddha, and an argument that cooperation and connection are what make humans solvable-problem people.

RAMANAN LAXMINARAYAN is founder and president of the One Health Trust, a senior research scholar at Princeton University, and an affiliate professor at the University of Washington. He is also senior associate at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and director of the WHO Collaborating Centre on Antimicrobial Resistance. The One Health Trust was founded as the Center for Disease Dynamics, Economics & Policy (CDDEP). He is a fellow of AAAS and the Infectious Diseases Society of America and has advised US presidential antibiotic-resistance panels.

Linked-In: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ramanan-laxminarayan-7853833/

BOOK: 

Bacteria to Buddha: https://www.amazon.in/s?k=bacteria+to+buddha
Excerpt: https://www.hindustantimes.com/lifestyle/art-culture/bacteria-to-buddha-read-an-exclusive-excerpt-from-ramanan-laxminarayan-s-new-book-101790935708968.html
Interview: https://www.hindustantimes.com/lifestyle/art-culture/micros-scope-a-wknd-chat-with-epidemiologist-ramanan-laxminarayan-101790935657743.html

MAJOR TALKS:

The coming crisis in antibiotics: https://www.ted.com/talks/ramanan_laxminarayan_the_coming_crisis_in_antibiotics
How a medical miracle turned into a global threat (NPR): https://www.npr.org/transcripts/421490567
One Health Trust podcast: https://onehealthtrust.org/news-media/podcasts/the-one-health-trusts-new-center-a-new-concept-using-age-old-insights/

SELECTED WRITINGS:

Choosing health: An entitlement for all Indians: https://onehealthtrust.org/publications/archive/choosing-health-entitlement-all-indians/
Safe tap water as the true measure of health: https://www.hindustantimes.com/opinion/drinking-water-from-the-tap-as-a-true-measure-for-development-101766691298367.html
On tackling antimicrobial resistance (Lancet): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38797178/
Expanding antibiotic, vaccine and diagnostics development: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)00878-X/abstract
Disease control priorities: Improving health and reducing poverty: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30212058/
Stop delaying action on AMR (Nature): https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-02993-3
Climate change and AMR: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-026-01285-z
The overlooked pandemic of antimicrobial resistance (Lancet): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35065701/
The Lancet series on AMR: https://www.thelancet.com/series-do/antibiotic-resistance
The climate game India cannot afford to lose: https://www.hindustantimes.com/opinion/the-climate-game-india-cannot-afford-to-lose-101776426575099.html
India's antibiotic crisis has a vaccine solution: https://www.hindustantimes.com/opinion/indias-antibiotic-crisis-has-a-vaccine-solution-101778169680761.html
What the National Family Health Survey does not tell us: https://www.hindustantimes.com/opinion/what-india-refuses-to-register-101780649562302.html
Complete archive of articles published in the Hindustan Times: https://www.hindustantimes.com/author/ramanan-laxminarayan-101672929458985
Background: On the One Health programme: https://www.who.int/health-topics/one-health#tab=tab_1
Background: WHO fact-sheet on the Nipah virus: https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/nipah-virus
Google Scholar for comprehensive list of his publications: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=Ramanan+Laxminarayan

RELATED PODCASTS:

Roxy Koll on climate change, El Nino and health: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN9p4dUO7O8&t=4450s
Dr Soumya Swaminathan on health: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSevz02FYwo&t=4s

ABOUT US:

Arati Kumar-Rao on Instagram:   https://www.instagram.com/aratikumarrao/ 
Prem Panicker on X (Twitter): https://x.com/prempanicker  
Prem on Substack: https://prempanicker.substack.com/
Our email: [email protected]
Podcast Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/FromTheMarginlands 

EOM

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In this wide-ranging conversation with Arati (Prem was out sick, sadly), Dr. Roxy Koll explains why climate change is no longer a distant, gradual phenomenon but an accelerating cascade of interconnected risks. They discuss El Niño and monsoon dynamics to extreme rainfall, Himalayan hazards, sea-level rise, urban heat, forest-driven rainfall recycling, climate-sensitive disease, agriculture, and the communication gap between science, policy, and the public.
SHOWNOTES:
Dengue, rainfall and a changing monsoon
Dr. Koll previews research connecting dengue incidence in Kerala with climate and monsoon variability. 
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39837878/     
The 2025 paper co-authored by Koll. It reports climate–dengue associations in Pune, including lag times of roughly 2–5 months that could support anticipatory intervention.
https://www.climate.rocksea.org/research/climate-dengue/ 

The danger we underestimate: speed
The central warning: climate change is unfolding faster than governments, infrastructure, monitoring systems, and ordinary people can adapt. Extreme events are no longer distant risks; they are life-changing disruptions.
https://www.climate.rocksea.org/research/future-indian-ocean/ 

Climate change is accelerating
It is not simply that warming and extreme rainfall are increasing. The rate of intensification is itself increasing—especially since the late 20th century and even more strongly after 2000.

How the Pacific controls weather far away
Why should warming in the Pacific affect India? The Pacific’s vast scale and its ability to store heat make it a major driver of global atmospheric circulation.

Trade winds, upwelling and El Niño
Dr. Koll explains normal Pacific conditions: easterly trade winds push warm surface water toward Asia, while cold, nutrient-rich water upwells near the Americas, supporting fisheries.El Niño and La Niña, simply explained

The ocean as Earth’s heat reservoir
Oceans absorb most of the surplus heat caused by greenhouse-gas emissions. Their immense depth and heat capacity allow them to store warming for centuries, locking in climate consequences long after emissions decline.

Stronger El Niños in a hotter world
The discussion considers why recent El Niño events appear unusually intense, why scientists remain careful about attribution, and why existing vocabulary often struggles to convey unprecedented extremes.
https://www.climate.rocksea.org/research/ocean-atmosphere-coupling/ 


A startling measure of ocean heat
Dr. Koll uses the Hiroshima-bomb analogy to convey the scale of excess heat absorbed by the world’s oceans every second—and what that accumulated heat means for corals, fish, acidification, and marine ecosystems.

From El Niño to India’s monsoon
The monsoon is part of the wider tropical circulation. In El Niño conditions, weakened trade winds can weaken monsoon flow, reducing seasonal rainfall over India.
https://www.climate.rocksea.org/research/enso-monsoon/
How do El Nino years link to Indian Monsoons?
https://www.climate.rocksea.org/images/climate/iitm_aismr_monsoon_enso_1871_2025.png

Weak monsoon, extreme rain
A crucial distinction: below-normal monsoon rainfall can coexist with cloudbursts and severe local flooding. Warmer air holds more moisture, allowing short-lived systems to dump extraordinary amounts of rain.
https://www.climate.rocksea.org/research/widespread-extreme-rainfall-india/ 

What 1,000 mm of rain really means
A practical rainfall lesson: 1 mm of rain over 1 sq m equals 1 litre of water. Scale that to 1,000 mm across a hillside, city, or roof, and the destructive force becomes easier to grasp.

Infrastructure built for yesterday’s climate
Heavy rain, slope failures, forest loss, and the Mumbai–Pune corridor illustrate how roads, tunnels, hillsides, and urban systems often fail to account for future climate extremes.

Sea-level rise beyond the headline
A few millimetres a year may sound trivial, but on low-gradient coasts they translate into substantial land loss. Local sea-level rise varies across the Indian coastline.

Why seas are rising
The two dominant causes are melting land ice and thermal expansion: as seawater absorbs heat, it expands. Indian Ocean warming is especially important for regional sea-level rise.

Subsidence, saltwater and storm surge
Sea-level risk is compounded where land is sinking, groundwater is extracted, and deltas are fragile. Higher baseline seas make cyclones, tides, and storm surges more damaging—and saltwater can destroy agricultural land for years.

Climate impacts outlast one season
Delayed monsoons affect sowing, rabi crops, stubble burning, air pollution, household debt, education, food systems, and the wider economy.

https://www.climate.rocksea.org/images/climate/Roxy_2025_Monsoon_Water_Changing_Climate.pdf -- perhaps the closest single companion reading to this episode, spanning monsoon change, water security, extreme rain, climate-sensitive disease, and adaptation

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Assam’s July floods were explained as a consequence of heavy rainfall. That is true, but incomplete. Historian Arupjyoti Saikia joins us to uncover the much longer history behind the catastrophe: the earthquakes that transformed the Brahmaputra, the failed embankment experiment, changing sediment, dams and extraction in the highlands, erased wetlands, and a political economy built around flood control and relief. We discuss why a single river basin is governed in fragments; whether climate change is becoming an alibi for destructive decisions, and what farmers, graziers and fisherwomen understand about the river that technocratic planning does not.

ABOUT US:

Arati Kumar Rao on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aratikumarrao/

Arati on Substack: https://aratikumarrao.substack.com/

Prem Panicker on X: https://x.com/prempanicker

Prem on Substack: https://prempanicker.substack.com/

Our email: marginlands @gmail.com  

ARUPJYOTI SAIKIA'S BOOKS: 

1. The Unquiet River: A biography of the Brahmaputra: https://www.amazon.in/UNQUIET-RIVER-C-Arupjyoti-Saikia/dp/0199468117/ref=sr_1_1?sr=8-1

2. The Quest for Modern Assam: A History (1942-2000): https://www.amazon.in/Quest-Modern-Assam-History-1942-2000-ebook/dp/B0CD824NQB/?_encoding=UTF8

3. Forests and Ecological History of Assam, 1826–2000: https://www.amazon.in/Forests-Ecological-History-Assam-1826-2000-ebook/dp/B0746LGL51/?_encoding=UTF8

4. India’s Forests: Revisiting Nature and History (with Mahesh Rangarajan): https://www.amazon.in/Indias-Forests-Revisiting-Nature-History-ebook/dp/B0GMH7F4QZ/?_encoding=UTF8

5. A Century of Protests: Peasant Politics in Assam Since 1900: https://www.amazon.in/Century-Protests-Peasant-Politics-Assam/dp/0415811945/ref=sr_1_1?nsdOptOutParam=true&sr=8-1

6. Jungles, Reserves, Wildlife: A history of forests in Assam: https://www.ovid.com/jnls/coas/fulltext/01370234-200503020-00014~jungles-reserves-wildlife-a-history-of-forests-in-assam 

SELECTED WRITINGS

Making sense of Assam floods: Why rivers turned violent in the 20th century — Arupjyoti Saikia and Jagdish Krishnaswamy: https://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/making-sense-of-assam-floods-why-rivers-turned-violent-in-the-20th-century-8010362/

Jute in the Brahmaputra Valley: The Making of Flood Control in Twentieth-Century Assam: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/modern-asian-studies/article/abs/jute-in-the-brahmaputra-valley-the-making-of-flood-control-in-twentiethcentury-assam/4AF82003858518B8FBDE6E7C9CBEAB5F

Flood Mitigation, Climate Change Adaptation and Technological Lock-In in Assam: https://ecoinsee.org/journal/ojs/index.php/ees/article/view/150

Nature and Assam’s Present: https://www.india-seminar.com/2017/690/690_arupjyoti_saikia.htm

Ecology, Floods and the Political Economy of Hydropower: https://pmml.nic.in/downloadSeries/121

Assam floods aren't just about Brahmaputra: https://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/assam-floods-arent-just-about-the-brahmaputra-10834633/

Making sense of Assam floods (with Jagdish Krishnaswamy): https://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/making-sense-of-assam-floods-why-rivers-turned-violent-in-the-20th-century-8010362/

WATCH AND LISTEN

The Unquiet River: Brahmaputra: https://bengaluru.sciencegallery.com/submerge/confluence/arupjyoti-saikia

Gold Washers, Fishermen and Boatmen: Was There a Pre-modern Life of the Brahmaputra?: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5Ib1Tgtm8A

The Quest for Modern Assam (Asian Review of Books): https://megaphone.link/NSR3351490911

RELATED READING

Engineering a season of floods (Amitangshu Acharya, LiveMint): https://www.livemint.com/mint-lounge/features/engineering-a-season-of-floods-11573832077930.html

India Today: How disruption in the surrounding highlands intensifies flooding in Assam: https://www.indiatoday.in/science/story/assam-floods-nagaland-arunachal-hill-erosion-experts-solutions-2969082-2026-08-12

Assam floods: Engineering alone cannot help (SANDRP): https://sandrp.in/2026/08/17/drp-170826-assam-floods-engineering-alone-cannot-help/

Mongabay India: Assam’s floods expose a crisis beyond heavy rain: https://india.mongabay.com/2026/08/assam-floods-expose-a-crisis-beyond-heavy-rain/

Upper Assam’s flood catastrophe a direct result of river and mountain grabbing (Scroll): https://scroll.in/article/1095046/upper-assams-flood-catastrophe-is-a-direct-result-of-river-and-mountain-grabbing

Newslaundry: The making of Assam’s annual “unprecedented” flood: https://www.newslaundry.com/2026/07/30/at-least-75-dead-7-lakh-displaced-the-making-of-assams-annual-unprecedented-flood

EOM

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Contact us:
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Arati Kumar-Rao on Instagram
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Romulus Whitaker has spent close to seven decades following snakes into the larger worlds around them: forests and rivers, laboratories and hospitals, and the deep ecological knowledge of the Irulas. In this conversation, he tells us how the Snake Park and Croc Bank became informal universities, why India’s “Big Four” antivenom model no longer fits the science, and what is lost when traditional knowledge disappears. At 83, his unfinished work remains urgent: preventing snakebite deaths among India’s farmers and defending Great Nicobar, a landscape he asks us to regard not as real estate, but as a place of worship.

CONTACT US:

Rom Whitaker on Instagram:   / romulus.whitaker 
Rom Whitaker on X: https://x.com/romuluswhitaker/
Arati Kumar-Rao on Instagram:   / aratikumarrao 
Arati Kumar-Rao on Substack: https://postcardsfromomelas.substack....
Prem Panicker on X: https://x.com/prempanicker
Prem Panicker on Substack: https://prempanicker.substack.com/
Email us: marginlands‪@gmail.com‬

BOOK: Snakes, Drugs and Rock and Roll by Rom Whitaker and Janaki Lenin: https://www.amazon.in/Snakes-Drugs-Ro...

ROM WHITAKER'S PRINCIPAL INSTITUTIONS:

Chennai Snake Park, founded in 1972: official website and history: https://chennaisnakepark.in/about/

Madras Crocodile Bank Trust and Centre for Herpetology: https://madrascrocodilebank.org/

Irula Snake Catchers’ Industrial Cooperative Society: https://www.irulasnakecatchers.com/

The Irula Co-operative Venom Centre, India (Paper by Rom Whitaker and Harry Andrews: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journa...

Agumbe Rainforest Research Station: https://agumberainforest.org/arrs/

Andaman and Nicobar Environment Team:  https://anetindia.org/about/history/

Gharial Ecology Project: https://madrascrocodilebank.org/

ROM'S FILMOGAPHY:

Rom's wildlife films (archive): https://madrascrocodilebank.org/film_...

UPCOMING EVENT:

The World Congress on Snakes, Kandy, Sri Lanka, October 1-4: https://www.worldsnakes26.com/

ADDITIONAL MATERIAL:

Beyond the Big Four: https://journals.plos.org/plosntds/ar...

The python hunters: https://indianexpress.com/article/ind...

Rom on working with the Irulas: https://indianexpress.com/article/ind...

The gharial going extinct again: https://journals.ku.edu/iguana/articl...

For the full Show Notes, see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi

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The 2026 monsoon is failing, the Cauvery catchment is running dry, and the reservoirs feeding Bengaluru are alarmingly low. So Arati Kumar-Rao and Prem Panicker call back the one person who can tell us what it means: S. Vishwanath, who first argued on Season 1 of this show that the city's water crisis was one of management, not scarcity -- a statement now tested against a year when the rain genuinely didn't come. We've long wanted to bring guests back to finish conversations the clock cut short; Vishwanath is our first encore, and the moment couldn't be more fitting.

FOLLOW S VISHWANATH:

X (Twitter): https://x.com/zenrainman

Instagram: https://instagram.com/zenrainman

Biome Environmental Trust: biometrust.org

The Climate Charche Podcast, hosted by Vishwanath: https://bengaluru.sciencegallery.com/anthropocene-programmes/climatecharche

SHOW NOTES:

Major talks over the past year:

Cauvery water crisis in Bangalore: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrGkWHGnhpA

Professor M R Krishnamurthy Memorial Lecture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLhxJmac69E

Smart water infrastructure for future cities: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmjEUK3pqRg

Can Indian cities solve the looming water crisis?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flUc-zEt7_c

The Hindu interview: Is the urban water system breaking? : https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/is-the-urban-water-system-breaking/article68027545.ece

LinkedIn Post: A crisis is brewing in the Kaveri catchment: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/vishwanath-s-12ab302a_there-is-a-crisis-brewing-in-the-kaveri-catchment-activity-7471485272015163392-SUZq/

FLASHBACK: 

The 12 May 2025 episode with S Vishwanath on From the Marginlands (see also, show notes below the video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGsQU6l9REY&t=3227s

Since much of what we spoke of then is relevant to this episode, here is a quick recap:

Reading a landscape, and what it hides: Arati opened with a photograph of the Teesta in Bangladesh in the dry season: a river that looks idyllic but conceals displacement, upstream dams and failed water-sharing treaties. The point that framed the whole hour: a beautiful image of water is never enough without the history and politics underneath it. From there the conversation moved through Robert Macfarlane's Is a River Alive?, the idea of "linguistic erosion" as local words for the land disappear, and the thorny question of whether rivers should have legal personhood, with Arati wary of "ventriloquising" nature while the systems that actually govern water ignore the ground.

Water as a social good, not just H₂O: Vishwanath told the story of the Rainwater Club and Biome Trust, and of the Mannu Vaddar community of traditional well-diggers whose knowledge of soil and shallow aquifers underpins his work. He argued that the "genie is out of the bottle" on recharge wells in Bengaluru, that shallow aquifers are a genuine, sustainable alternative to ever-deeper borewells. He demystified groundwater with the image of a "sponge" beneath our feet, and delivered the metaphor that recurs throughout this new episode: India treats groundwater as a recurring deposit, a savings account we keep raiding, rather than a fixed deposit held for emergencies.

Who benefits from the water?: Using lake rejuvenation in Kolar as his example, Vishwanath argues that the decisive question is never engineering but distribution. Who actually gets the water? Define the problem wrong, prioritise engineering over equity, and you are "doomed to a cycle of failure."

Digital advocacy, the ideal city, and a call to action: We asked if digital environmental advocacy is mostly superficial. His answer then, which we test directly in this new episode, was that digital media is often shallow, but essential for building a credible, fact-checked "position" from which to push for policy change. He laid out his "six lenses of sustainability" for cities — social, technical, institutional and others — and his vision of cities like Bengaluru as "water and fertilizer factories," using treated wastewater to drought-proof their hinterland rather than drain it. 

Vishwanath closed the previous episode on the question of responsibility balanced against rights: fix your leaks, use gentler detergents, adopt a local lake or school, hold the state to account. And remember that a right to water comes with a responsibility toward it.

That optimism — "management, not scarcity" — is exactly what a failed monsoon now puts to the test. And that is why S Vishwanath is the first of our returning guests -- so that we can test today's reality against yesterday's thesis, and see if the governing principles of water management still hold true in a year of scarcity.

EOM

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Most people in health pick a lane — clinician, researcher, or policymaker. Dr. Soumya Swaminathan has been all three for forty years: a paediatrician who became a leading TB and HIV researcher, then the WHO's first-ever Chief Scientist, steering global science through COVID. She now chairs the M.S. Swaminathan Research Foundation, and was just elected to the Royal Society — making her and her father the first Indian father-daughter pair to earn that honour.

She joins Arati Kumar-Rao (https://www.instagram.com/aratikumarrao/) and Prem Panicker (X: https://x.com/prempanicker) for an hour on a simple, radical idea: your health is mostly decided before you ever reach a hospital — by the air you breathe, the water you drink, the food you can afford, and the walls of the house you sleep in.

We talk about:

*Why social and environmental determinants outweigh healthcare access — and the Bihar village where fixing mud walls did what no clinic could
*The RATIONS trial: how a simple bag of food rations cut new TB cases by nearly half
*Why hydrologists, ecologists and public health experts never talk to each other, though their work meets in the same village
*How India's food safety nets feed people enough calories but not enough nutrition — and how to fix that without building anything new
*The salt-pan workers who look 65 at 40, the ASHAs who just need a bicycle, and why you only hear the truth in a separate, quiet room
*What COVID got right, what it got wrong, and why the pandemic treaty stalled
*Her father's idea of "biohappiness" — measuring a nation by its natural and human capital, not just GDP

SHOW NOTES:

Bio, by Cureus: https://www.cureus.com/articles/291147-dr-soumya-swaminathan-a-pioneer-in-global-health-and-equity#!/ and by ORCID: https://orcid.org/0009-0004-2233-7250
Dr Swaminathan on X: https://x.com/doctorsoumya
MS Swaminathan Research Foundation: https://www.mssrf.org/mssrf-team
WHO profile with links to official talks: https://www.governinghealthfutures2030.org/about-us/meet-the-co-chairs-and-commissioners/dr-soumya-swaminathan/

RESEARCH:

Delivering on citizen-centred health system for India: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(25)02589-9/fulltext
Nutritional supplementation to prevent TB: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(23)01231-X/abstract
HIV and tuberculosis in India: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19208978/
Efficacy of a Six-Month versus 36-Month Regimen for Prevention of Tuberculosis in HIV-Infected Persons in India: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/authors?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0047400


ARTICLES AND INTERVIEWS: 

Nutrition lies at the heart of India's health challenges: https://www.outlookindia.com/national/nutrition-lies-at-the-heart-of-indias-health-challenges-soumya-swaminathan
Unaffordable food No.1 health threat in India: https://www.onmanorama.com/lifestyle/health/2025/01/24/dr-soumya-swaminathan-on-indias-health-crisis.html
Focus should be on scaling up the use of innovations (The Hindu interview): https://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/health/focus-should-be-on-scaling-up-the-use-of-innovations/article61450615.ece
India can lead efforts to find new TB vaccine (The Hindu): https://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/health/need-for-new-vaccine-for-tb-says-former-who-chief-scientist/article66414408.ece
Science is amazing but no global coordination: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/india/science-amazing-but-no-global-coordination-who-chief-scientist-soumya-swaminathan-on-covid-19-pandemic/articleshow/89807443.cms

TALKS:

Lessons from Covid-19: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWLTQC0jp1k
On evidence, research translation and the role of science in policymaking: https://chatgpt.com/c/6a37ae68-4f2c-83ee-a431-84de6eff8f64
Lessons from the pandemic for science and public health: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HmX4RUjDI4
On pandemics, misinformation, and public health: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtKfC3Ficnc
Covering her career, leadership journey, public health, and science in India: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gASC8_ep8ys
A thoughtful discussion about scientific careers, leadership, and gender in research (podcast): https://tdr.who.int/global-health-matters-podcast/women-in-science/dr-soumya-swaminathan
Vaccines, variants and the future of pandemic response: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Rtmxeodv_8&t=7s
Is vaccine inequity undermining the fight against Covid?: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/dr-soumya-swaminathan-is-vaccine-inequity-undermining/id494517111?i=1000507509717
An insider's view into Covid-19, vaccines and beyond: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-_MZbCOP88
Lessons from the pandemic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWLTQC0jp1k
Pandemics, climate change and the role of science: https://lshtm.cloud.panopto.eu/Panopto/Pages/Viewer.aspx?id=c00a003d-34a0-4931-a14b-b211010eee1e
Leading MS Swaminathan Research Foundation's vision for sustainable change: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kher2F-sci8

Contact us:
Email the Podcast
Arati Kumar-Rao on Instagram
Prem Panicker on X (Twitter)
Prem on Substack
From The Marginlands on Instagram

A young person once asked: why care about nature when people are dying in Gaza? Environmental historian Mahesh Rangarajan gives the long answer — why the choice between people and the planet was always false.

In previous episodes of this podcast, our guests have talked to us about particular rivers, forests, seasons, environmental fissures. This time, we take the whole arc. Environmental historian Mahesh Rangarajan joins Arati Kumar-Rao and Prem Panicker for a conversation that runs from forest kingdoms that trained elephants for war, to the steam engine that made England the workshop of the world, to a tube well draining the water table under a field in Rajasthan tonight.

History, he argues, isn't a museum. It's a diagnostic tool — a way of understanding how we got here, and of telling the difference between what we meant to do and what we actually did. War is about resources: land, water, plants. So is peace. There was never a wall between caring about people and caring about the earth.

A conversation about the long quarrel between human beings and the rest of life on earth, and what the long view asks of us now:

GUEST BIO:

Mahesh Rangarajan is professor of history and environmental studies, and chair of the HDFC Archives of Contemporary India, at Ashoka University. Previously, he has taught at Cornell University, University of Delhi, Krea University and the National Centre for Biological Sciences (Bangalore). His notable works include Fencing The Forest and Nature and Nation. Along with Arupjyoti Saikia, he is co-editor of the recently released book, India's Forests. He has previous edited The Oxford Anthology of Indian Wildlife and Environmental Issues in India. Other notable co-edited works include Shifting Ground and At Nature's Edge. 

VIDEO TALKS:

On archiving India's environmental history: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rO77i6E040

India's environmental pasts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8wcFu7QfLo

Why history matters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28K8Y2khCQM

What history teaches us about climate and ecological crisis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usHnYRFLVSo

On archiving India's environmental history: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rO77i6E040

Revisiting the Anthropocene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFypZm52YBQ&t=7s

History, activism and the Anthropocene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V4tig2pARk&t=1s

Science, society and publics in 21st century India: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64jnPT4mvBk

Nature's pasts, nature's futures: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6emo9KuAww

How the tiger became Indian (and why): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KldDax2ZNlw

Are India's forest tribes still left out of policy?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQs4Hii3Lwo

WRITINGS AND INTERVIEWS: 

An extended The Hindu interview on being recognized by the American Historical Association: https://www.thehindu.com/education/an-interview-with-historian-dr-mahesh-rangarajan/article38185315.ece

Mahesh Rangarajan on the colonial branding of wildlife as "dangerous beasts", and its consequences: https://www.scribd.com/document/878819385/Indias-Environmental-History-A-Reader-Mahesh-Rangarajan-Z-Library-1

An EPW piece on the debate on man-animal conflict in India: https://www.jstor.org/stable/4404560

Mahesh Rangarajan on why mining in the Aravallis is driven not by strategic minerals, but by construction: https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/pune/aravalli-mining-not-driven-by-strategic-mineral-but-construction-demand-says-prof-mahesh-rangarajan-10446237/

Mahesh Rangarajan interview in The Hindu on the need for a working relationship between man and elephant: https://www.thehindu.com/features/metroplus/THE-SATURDAY-INTERVIEW-mdash-Jumbo-concern/article14684450.ece

Mahesh Rangarajan on why India's biodiversity, surviving despite depradations, is a gift: https://www.outlookindia.com/society/green-rainbow-news-261339

Wide-ranging interview in Business Standard: https://www.business-standard.com/article/opinion/lunch-with-bs-mahesh-rangarajan-115103000710_1.html

The Hindu on Mahesh Rangarajan's resignation as director of the Nehru Memorial Museum: https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/NMMLs-Mahesh-Rangarajan-resignation-Mistaking-a-scholar-for-a-bureaucrat/article62119874.ece

ADDITIONAL READING:

Dr BR Ambedkar's November 1949 speech: https://bodhisattva.org.in/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/Last-speech-of-Dr-B-R-Ambedkar-given-25-Nov-1949-English.pdf

Harish Damodaran piece on the importance of millet cultivation: https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-economics/why-iran-war-monsoon-worries-could-make-2026-indias-year-of-millets-10694671/

Norman Borlaug's 1970 Nobel Prize acceptance speech: https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/peace/1970/borlaug/acceptance-speech/

Contact us:
Email the Podcast
Arati Kumar-Rao on Instagram
Prem Panicker on X (Twitter)
Prem on Substack
From The Marginlands on Instagram

n this episode of From The Marginlands, Arati Kumar-Rao and Prem Panicker speak with ecologist and writer Harini Nagendra about the lost ecological memory of Bengaluru — a city once shaped by lakes, wetlands, trees and commons that sustained both biodiversity and community life.

Drawing on decades of research into urban ecology, Harini traces how cities slowly sever themselves from local water, food and ecological systems, and what disappears when nature is treated as expendable real estate. The conversation moves through Bengaluru’s forgotten lake networks, migrant relationships with urban nature, vanishing traditions of foraging and shared spaces, and the possibilities of restoring biodiversity in rapidly expanding Indian cities.

This is a conversation about memory, urban futures, ecological grief, and the difficult work of rebuilding relationships between people and the landscapes they inhabit.

ABOUT:

Harini Nagendra is an ecologist, author and public scholar working on urban ecology, sustainability, forests, commons, and biodiversity in Indian cities. She is Director of the School of Climate Change and Sustainability at Azim Premji University: https://azimpremjiuniversity.edu.in/people/harini-nagendra

Official website: https://harininagendra.com/

ResearchGate page: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Harini-Nagendra/3

On X: https://x.com/HariniNagendra

On Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/harini.nagendra/

Profile on edX, including course material and background: https://www.edx.org/bio/harini-nagendra

TALKS:

Harini Nagendra on Bangalore's history through its trees: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8Zo0C_NliY&t=2s

On ecology and sustainability: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k714Y_gpR1U

From Bangalore's lakes to detective mysteries: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeT1hQtcK5E

History, activism and the Antropocene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V4tig2pARk

What happened when the British chose India's trees: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30dmqoofUXs

Nature in the city: Changes in Bangalore over time and space: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8XJ7AYVe2M

Thinking ecologically about Indian cities: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2IKCCvkzso

Let's talk climate change: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMm_OX_mA-8

BOOKS: NON-FICTION:

Nature in the City: On Bangalore's ecological history, its lakes, trees, urban memory, and sustainability: https://www.amazon.in/NATURE-CITY-OIP-Harini-Nagendra/dp/0199495467/ref=sr_1_1?sr=8-1

Cities and Canopies: An exploration of trees in Indian cities: https://www.amazon.in/dp/0670091219/?bestFormat=true&k=cities%20and%20canopies&ref_=nb_sb_ss_w_scx-ent-bk-ww_k0_1_11_de

Shades of Blue: On water, lakes and urban futures in India: https://www.amazon.in/Shades-Blue-Harini-Nagendra/dp/0670099694/ref=sr_1_1?sr=8-1

BOOKS: FICTION

(Historical mysteries set in 1920s Bangalore, weaving ecology, history and social life into detective fiction)

The Bangalore Detectives Club: A sharp young woman in 1920s Bangalore quietly begins solving crimes in a city divided by empire, class and custom: https://www.amazon.in/THE-BANGALORE-DETECTIVES-CLUB/dp/140871518X/ref=sr_1_2?sr=8-2

Murder Under A Red Moon: A murder in colonial Bangalore draws amateur sleuth Kaveri Murthy into a web of secrets, politics and social tensions : https://www.amazon.in/Murder-Under-Red-Moon-Detectives/dp/1408715236/ref=sr_1_3?sr=8-3

A Nest of Vipers: As danger closes in around her family and friends, Kaveri investigates a case that reveals the darker undercurrents of the city : https://www.amazon.in/Nest-Vipers-Bangalore-Circus-Detectives/dp/1408715244/ref=sr_1_5?sr=8-5

Into the Leopard's Den: Kaveri’s search for the truth leads her into the worlds of royalty, power and hidden violence in princely-era Bangalore : https://www.amazon.in/INTO-THE-LEOPARDS-DEN/dp/9357316175/ref=sr_1_1?sr=8-1

 EOM

Contact us:
Email the Podcast
Arati Kumar-Rao on Instagram
Prem Panicker on X (Twitter)
Prem on Substack
From The Marginlands on Instagram