Gabrielle Bates is a poet, visual artist, and co-hosts the podcast The Poet Salon. She is the author of the poetry collection, Judas Goat (Tin House, 2023).

Patrycja Humienik is a Polish-American writer, editor, and performance artist. Her poetry collection, We Contain Landscapes (Tin House, 2025) is out now.

This was such a deep, nourishing conversation on art, language and friendship. This episode was audio produced by Katie McMurran. Music is by Madisen Ward.