Geraldine is in Victoria for a special interview with the indigenous opera singer Deborah Cheetham.

Geraldine loved the interview and the natural beauty of the country that Ms Cheetham nominated as her 'sacred space'.

The three days away in rural Victoria highlighted some uncomfortable truths for Geraldine: she was carrying bias and prejudice that she hadn't previously confronted.

The podcast then moves to discussion of women move onto discussion of the Middle East and Eliza admits she needs a bit more help at home on the domestic front.

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Thanks for listening!

Deborah Cheetham

Shtisel

Australian Government hacked