This was one of my favorite interviews on my previous podcast called Bock Talks. If human crisis exposes social excellence without leadership, could it be possible that leadership could create social excellence without crisis? 

Robert Quinn is a professor and author and an expert on leadership, which, when I interviewed him for this episode at the end of March, was still to be determined as COVID was just starting in our country. This was before the George Floyd event and everything that ensued following that, and foreshadowed a very interesting observation about leadership, whether or not someone has a title.

Who will emerge as the next leaders as a result of the COVID experience? And who will be the first followers? And how will this affect the world as we know it?