Patty and Arlene met at a writer’s retreat with Roxane Gay this past summer and immediately hit it off. The week Patty called Arlene about being on the show, Arlene had just left her role as the director of a women’s shelter in Louisville, KY. Arlene generously shares her real-time processing of leaving a full-time job of service, strengthening her connection with her body, and stepping into the unknown.

Links and extras from this episode:

1. Greenland by David Santos Donaldson

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Episode credits:

• Original music and sound editing by Leslie Allison
• Logo and cover art by Kira Weiss, photography by Kendall Tichner
• Produced by Patty Carnevale and Erin Ozmat
• All rights reserved in podcast content and the Giving In™ trademark