Ayşe Zarakol is Professor of International Relations at the University of Cambridge and a Politics Fellow at Emmanuel College. She is the author of Before the West: The Rise and Fall of Eastern World Orders, which argues that the sovereign, universalist world orders we associate with the modern West have older precedents in the great Eastern empires — and that understanding how those orders rose and fell tells us something about how our own might end.

In this conversation we discuss the history of large scale political orders, periods of disorder, and the future of the current Western world order in the 21st century. Ayse argues that the 17th century has many lessons that could be relevant for us in the 21st century,