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Earlier this year journalist Ben Makuch caught a glimpse of Eric Schmidt, the former CEO of Google, dancing at a club in Kyiv. It was a surreal moment, a snapshot of a tragic war that the West thinks is defining the future of conflict. Tech executives have flocked to Ukraine, courting the country in an attempt to get at a resource more precious than gold: data. Makuch was just there and has written about what he saw for The New Republic and he’s on the show today to talk about it.

* Some light smoking banter

* Ben’s timeline

* Google’s CEO dancing in a bar in Kyiv

* Ukraine as laboratory for war tech

* The JSOC era is over

* In defense of the majestic American turkey

* The great America vs China speculation

* War, cheaper

* On the actual frontline

* Wheat fields of fiber optic line

* The buzz of the drone

* Life in the bloodlands

* The human suffering of living in Ukraine

* FPV-made propaganda

* “Never underestimate human innovation when it comes to killing other humans.”

* What’s Erik Prince doing in Ukraine?

New York Times on Military Reform

The Medieval—and Highly Effective—Tactics of the Ukrainian Protests

Who Is St. Javelin and Why Is She a Symbol of the War in Ukraine?

‘Cope Cages’ on Busted Tanks Are a Symbol of Russia’s Military Failures

‘Unauthorized’ Edit to Ukraine’s Frontline Maps Point to Polymarket’s War Betting