The Turner Prize winning ceramicist Grayson Perry asks the computer game creator and novelist Naomi Alderman whether computer games can be called art. Only Artists is a new series which takes its title from the first two sentences of The Story of Art by the renowned art historian E. H. Gombrich: 'There really is no such thing as art. There are only artists.' There is no presenter, just two artists - from different disciplines - discussing creative questions, processes or decisions. It's up to them.

Grayson Perry and Naomi Alderman

Only Artists from BBC Radio 4 brings two artists together to talk about their creative work. The agenda is theirs, the conversation is free-flowing, and there is no presenter.   The title derives from the art historian EH Gombrich, who began his highly influential book The Story of Art with the famous line “There really is no such thing as art. There are only artists”. Here are some of them…

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The theatre producer and writer David Lan meets the composer Nico Muhly.  David Lan was the artistic director of the Young Vic in London for 18 years, winning the special Olivier Award in 2018 for his outstanding contribution to the stage. Born in South Africa, he trained as an actor, and then gained PhD in social anthropology, before working as a writer and director.  Nico Muhly has written more than 80 works, including the opera Marnie, staged by English National Opera and the Metropolitan Opera in New York. He has collaborated with a wide range of musicians, including Philip Glass and Bjork, and his recent work for the screen includes the score for the BBC TV drama Howards End. Three of his compositions have inspired new dance works, currently being performed at Sadlers Wells.

David Lan meets Nico Muhly

Lavinia Greenlaw has published six collections of poetry, including The Built Moment which reflected on her father’s dementia. Her novels include In the City of Love’s Sleep, about a relationship sparked by a chance encounter in a museum. She also writes about art and music, including a book on how pop shaped her young identity. She was the first artist in residence at the Science Museum, and her immersive sound work, Audio Obscura, won the Ted Hughes Award for New Work in Poetry. Charles Avery grew up on the island of Mull. For more than 15 years, he has worked on a single project – the invention of an imaginary island, creating its people, settlements, landscapes, forests and creatures through paint, sculpture and text. The main town is called Onomatopoeia, and it’s rumoured that the island is home to an elusive beast called the Noumenon. Producer Clare Walker

Lavinia Greenlaw meets Charles Avery

The saxophonist Jess Gillam meets the bass guitarist Gail Ann Dorsey. In 2016 Jess Gillam became the first-ever saxophonist to reach the final of the BBC Young Musician competition, and in 2018 she was a soloist at the Last Night of the Proms. Her debut album Rise topped the UK classical charts. She also presents This Classical Life on BBC Radio 3.  Gail Ann Dorsey was a member of David Bowie’s band from 1995 until his death. She would often duet with him on stage, including taking the part originally performed by Freddie Mercury on Under Pressure. She has released three solo albums and has worked with a wide range of artists, including Tears for Fears, Boy George and Charlie Watts. Producer  Clare Walker

Jess Gillam meets Gail Ann Dorsey

The playwright Simon Stephens meets Simon Armitage. the Poet Laureate.  Simon Stephens has created more than 30 works for the theatre. They include original dramas, such as Punk Rock, set in the library of a Stockport school, new versions of plays by Chekhov and Ibsen, and the highly successful stage adaptation of The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time, which won the Olivier Award for the best new play, and the Tony Award for the best play on Broadway.  Simon Armitage is the current national Poet Laureate, a role he began in May 2019. He published his first full-length collection of poems, Zoom!, in 1989. Since then has published more than a dozen volumes of poetry, along with fiction, an acclaimed translation of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, works for theatre, film, television and radio, and a book about of his love of pop music, and his band The Scaremongers. Producer  Clare Walker

Simon Stephens meets Simon Armitage

The painter Chantal Joffe meets the writer Olivia Laing.  Chantal Joffe was Professor of Painting at the Royal Academy of Arts until 2019, and is renowned for her bold, large-scale portraits of women, and for her self-portraits. She has won the Charles Wollaston Award for the 'most distinguished work' in the  Royal Academy's Summer Exhibition, chosen from more than 1300 entries. In 2018 she set herself the challenge of creating a self-portrait every day.  Olivia Laing's books include The Lonely City, a reflection on what it means to be alone, which has been translated into 17 languages and sold over 100,000 copies, and The Trip to Echo Spring, which focuses on the connections between creativity and alcohol. Her novel Crudo, set in the summer of 2017, was widely acclaimed and won the James Tait Black Memorial Prize in 2019.  Producer: Clare Walker

Grayson Perry and Naomi Alderman

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