Host Geoff Lawton and guests Sam, Eric, and Ben sit down to unpack the evolution of the Greening the Desert project, Jordan — from the early days of dust, salt, and heat to the cool, shaded food forest it became. Together they share field stories, design insights, and the lessons learned while turning a degraded desert site into a living demonstration of regeneration. It’s a roundtable tour through one of the most iconic permaculture projects ever built.

Watch the video episode here.

Key Takeaways:

00:00 – 03:12: The project begins in the hardest conditions: Conflict, heat and barren soil set the stage for a bold restoration experiment.

03:12 – 07:10: Evaporation is the real enemy in drylands: Shade, wind buffering and hardy pioneers must come first.

07:10 – 12:20: From spiky pioneers to cooperative legumes: Mesquite held the line early, but gentler support species took over as soil improved.

12:20 – 15:24: Water scarcity shapes every design decision: Swales, mapping and strict budgeting kept the system alive with only hours of weekly water.

15:24 – 18:21: A 70-hectare project reveals costly surveying mistakes: Swales accidentally built uphill had to be torn out and rebuilt.

18:21 – 21:11: A plastic bottle becomes the ultimate teaching tool: Geoff uses simple props to show how contour and water movement actually work.

21:11 – 24:01: Eric arrives in 2009 to a Mars-like landscape: Harsh climate, cultural shock and nearby conflict defined his first days.

24:01 – 27:01: Reality challenges the media narrative: Eric finds Jordan welcoming, safe and nothing like he’d been told.

27:01 – 28:31: Hardship resets Eric’s understanding of difficulty: The desert strips away excuses and sharpens purpose.

28:31 – 33:24: Sam’s journey leads to a thriving 2019 site: He arrives to find the project lush, stable and full of students.

33:24 – 36:00: Proof deserts everywhere can be restored: If this site healed, better landscapes can rebound even faster.

36:00 – 40:32: A 'peace army' replaces the military approach: They contrast permaculture’s healing work with systems that fail to make lasting change.

40:32 – 47:27: Ben’s military experience fuels his restoration drive: War showed him the cost of destruction and the need for repair.

47:27 – 50:48: Aid agencies often miss the point: Sam sees operations focused on extraction rather than regeneration.

50:48 – 53:12: Forest systems beat vegetable beds in the long game: True resilience comes from canopy, soil life and structure.

53:12 – 56:46: ‘Invasives’ become vital allies in dead landscapes: Fast pioneers rebuild soil where delicate natives can’t survive yet.

56:46 – 01:00:25: You can’t recreate past ecosystems on degraded land: Regeneration needs a forward path, not nostalgia.

01:02:23 – 01:04:21: Spain’s Almería shows the industrial opposite: A sea of plastic greenhouses reveals the cost of synthetic agriculture.

01:04:21 – 01:05:30: Reed beds close the loop with elegance: Wastewater becomes irrigation and inspires nearby villages.