Now that funding has been cut off by Congress, the future of NPR and individual public radio stations remains uncertain. Back in May, on myWhoWhatWhy podcast, I talked with Steve Oney, who has written what may be the definitive history of NPR, On Air: The Triumph and Tumult of NPR. Some of his conclusions may surprise you.

While Fox News and right-wing talk radio built empires of outrage, National Public Radio quietly revolutionized American broadcasting with a different model: nuance, narrative, and long-form journalism in a sea of hot takes. But has NPR’s time passed? NPR’s greatest enemy might be itself: The broadcaster’s “collectivist mentality” that prioritizes consensus over hard-hitting journalism has repeatedly hamstrung innovation.

While NPR has been broadcasting tote bags since 1971, can they survive a knife fight, their own risk aversion, and that they still think they’re college radio?

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