In this episode, Chad and Jason wrestle with a question many ministry leaders feel but rarely slow down to define: what does healthy growth actually look like? While churches often default to numbers to measure success, this conversation challenges the idea that growth is purely numeric. Instead, they explore how true health is found in alignment, life change, and shared clarity around what really matters. Through stories of transformation and honest reflection, they contrast business-style metrics with ministry fruit and invite leaders to rethink how they define health, resist comparison, and pursue growth that reflects real change in people’s lives.