Hear Women

How can we recognize harmful leadership when it is hidden behind charisma, competence, or apparent kindness? 

In this episode of Hear Women, Tara Beth Leach welcomes Yulee Lee, leadership expert and author of Unmasking Toxic Leadership, for an honest conversation about toxic leadership, healing, discernment, and the kind of leadership that helps people flourish. Drawing from her own experiences with both healthy and harmful leaders, Lee reflects on how our wounds can shape the way we lead and why true leadership renewal requires more than simply trying to avoid becoming like the people who hurt us.

Lee calls churches to move beyond good intentions and prepare for difficult moments by providing support, protection from retaliation, fair processes, and clear ways to report abuse outside the authority of the person being reported. Drawing from the story of the Good Samaritan, she asks what it would look like for the church to offer practical, costly care to people who have been wounded by toxic leadership.

Rather than simply recycling harmful patterns, this conversation encourages leaders to use their God-given imagination to consider a kind of leadership that heals rather than harms.

This episode highlights the following themes:

• How to recognize toxic leadership when the signs are subtle
• Why discernment requires awareness, wisdom, and the courage to act
• How churches can better care for people who have been harmed by toxic leaders

Links from this episode:

• Learn more about Yulee Lee
• Read Unmasking Toxic Leadership by Yulee Lee
• Read Prey Tell by Tiffany Bluhm
• Read the transcript here
• Learn more about Hear Women
• Learn more about your hosts, Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young, Nijay Gupta, and Tara Beth Leach
• Read Redeemer by Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young
• Read Tell Her Story by Nijay Gupta
• Read Emboldened by Tara Beth Leach

SPECIAL OFFER | Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPHEAR40 for 40% off and free shipping on any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.

SPONSOR | Hear Women is sponsored by Northern Seminary, where thousands of women have been equipped to serve as pastors, practitioners, church planters, and ministry leaders across the globe. Explore your calling and visit seminary.edu to learn more.

Credits:

✅ Producers: Christine Pelliccio Melo, Helen Lee, and Travis Albritton

✅ Research Assistants: Abby Lee and Jazmin Rose

✅ Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts

✅ Social Media Manager: Makayla Payne

✅ Podcast Art: Kate Lillard

✅ Theme Song: "Organica" by Artax

Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.

As an Amazon Affiliate, this channel earns commissions from qualifying purchases when you use the links above.

Who gets to determine the stories, wisdom, and perspectives that shape the church? And what responsibility do readers have as they make their choices of what Christian books to read?

In this episode of Hear Women, Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young welcomes Deborah Sáenz, Acquisitions and Development Editor at NavPress, to pull back the curtains on Christian publishing and the vital question of whose voices are heard. With her experience in both marketing and editorial roles, Sáenz reveals the hidden decisions that influence which authors and perspectives end up on bookstore shelves, and why so many stories remain untold.

Together, Gilmore-Young and Sáenz discuss the evolution and continuing challenges to diversity within the publishing world, reflecting on shifting industry landscapes, the problem of representation among staff and authors, and the systemic hurdles that keep many writers on the margins. You’ll hear practical advice for aspiring BIPOC authors facing discouragement, insights into how the industry can create more opportunity for underrepresented writers, and a call for church communities to read stories that showcase a wide variety of life experiences and backgrounds.

This conversation challenges listeners to consider their role in elevating needed voices and why the future of Christian formation depends on it. 

This episode highlights the following themes:

• How publishing professionals shape which stories reach the church and which are left out
• Why representation among editors, marketers, and decision-makers matters for diversity
• Why the church benefits from reading beyond its comfort zone

Links from this episode:

• Learn more about Deborah Sáenz
• Read Christ in the Abyss by Jean Neely
• Learn more about the Every Voice Now initiative at IVP
• Read the transcript here
• Learn more about Hear Women
• Learn more about your hosts, Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young, Nijay Gupta, and Tara Beth Leach
• Read Redeemer by Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young
• Read Tell Her Story by Nijay Gupta
• Read Emboldened by Tara Beth Leach

SPECIAL OFFER | Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPHEAR40 for 40% off and free shipping on any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.

SPONSOR | Hear Women is sponsored by Northern Seminary, where thousands of women have been equipped to serve as pastors, practitioners, church planters, and ministry leaders across the globe. Explore your calling and visit seminary.edu to learn more.

Credits:

✅ Producers: Christine Pelliccio Melo, Helen Lee, and Travis Albritton

✅ Research Assistants: Abby Lee and Jazmin Rose

✅ Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts

✅ Social Media Manager: Makayla Payne

✅ Podcast Art: Kate Lillard

✅ Theme Song: "Organica" by Artax

Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.

As an Amazon Affiliate, this channel earns commissions from qualifying purchases when you use the links above.

How have you been shaped by the influence of White evangelical women through history, maybe without even realizing it? And what has it cost these women to live such influential lives?

In this episode of Hear Women, Nijay Gupta welcomes Kristin Du Mez, Professor of History at Calvin University. As the bestselling author of Jesus and John Wayne and her newest release, Live Laugh Love: The Secret History of White Christian Women and the World They Made, Du Mez brings her expertise in history, gender, and evangelical culture to a conversation about the complex and often hidden world of Christian women in America.

Together, they follow Du Mez’s Midwest upbringing, her transformative time studying in Germany, and then to her discovery of overlooked women such as Katharine Bushnell and evangelical icons such as Elisabeth Elliot and Amy Grant. She uncovers how women shaped and survived American evangelicalism—through music, fiction, celebrity, and community—and how the pressures and expectations they experienced bolstered their ministries or capsized them. Gupta and Du Mez reflect on power, nostalgia, control, suffering, and hope, while considering the lives of influential evangelical women of the past and present.

You'll discover ways that White Christian women had profound influence on American evangelicalism, both positively and negatively, and emerge with a three-dimensional understanding of women's impact on American Christianity.

This episode highlights the following themes:

• How White Christian women’s experiences are shaped by both subtle and public forces
• Why nostalgia can hide pain, and why history matters for making sense of evangelical culture
• What happened to women who break silence and refuse conformity, such as Jen Hatmaker and Rachel Held Evans

Links from this episode:

• Learn more about Kristin Du Mez and read Live Laugh Love
• Check out Katharine Bushnell’s book God’s Word to Women
• Read the transcript here
• Learn more about Hear Women
• Learn more about your hosts, Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young, Nijay Gupta, and Tara Beth Leach
• Read Redeemer by Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young
• Read Tell Her Story by Nijay Gupta
• Read Emboldened by Tara Beth Leach

SPECIAL OFFER | Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPHEAR40 for 40% off and free US shipping on any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.

SPONSOR | Hear Women is sponsored by Northern Seminary, where thousands of women have been equipped to serve as pastors, practitioners, church planters, and ministry leaders across the globe. Explore your calling and visit seminary.edu to learn more.

Credits:

✅ Producers: Christine Pelliccio Melo, Helen Lee, and Travis Albritton

✅ Research Assistants: Abby Lee and Jazmin Rose

✅ Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts

✅ Social Media Manager: Makayla Payne

✅ Podcast Art: Kate Lillard

✅ Theme Song: "Organica" by Artax

Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.

As an Amazon Affiliate, this channel earns commissions from qualifying purchases when you use the links above.

Since Hear Women’s launch in March, we’ve heard from an array of guests who are inspiring entire communities to thrive, even amid our ever-changing and unpredictable cultural moment.

In this special mid-season episode, Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young, Tara Beth Leach, and Nijay Gupta gather for an honest check-in, reflecting on life, ministry, and the remarkable guests who’ve been on the show so far. They look back on standout moments, sharing how guests’ stories are sparking change, courage, and holy imagination in the church.

From discussing the Southern Baptist Convention’s recent vote on women pastors to politically motivated attempts to box women in, the hosts also process how current events continue to reveal why truly hearing women is essential. Rather than adding to online debates, they focus on what the church can learn by listening to and highlighting women’s giftings, grit, and unique leadership.

Tune in to join in celebrating women’s stories and what you can expect from the rest of this season of Hear Women.

This episode highlights the following themes:

• Why real, vulnerable conversations with women matter for the health and future of the church
• The impact of elevating women’s stories
• How to cultivate empathy, biblical literacy, and curiosity as we reflect on women’s gifts and leadership

Links from this episode:

• Read the transcript here
• Learn more about Hear Women
• Learn more about your hosts, Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young, Nijay Gupta, and Tara Beth Leach
• Read Redeemer by Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young
• Read Tell Her Story by Nijay Gupta
• Read Emboldened by Tara Beth Leach

SPECIAL OFFER | Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPHEAR40 for 40% off and free US shipping on any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.

SPONSOR | Hear Women is sponsored by Northern Seminary, where thousands of women have been equipped to serve as pastors, practitioners, church planters, and ministry leaders across the globe. Explore your calling and visit seminary.edu to learn more.

Credits:

✅ Producers: Christine Pelliccio Melo, Helen Lee, and Travis Albritton

✅ Research Assistants: Abby Lee and Jazmin Rose

✅ Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts

✅ Social Media Manager: Makayla Payne

✅ Podcast Art: Kate Lillard

✅ Theme Song: "Organica" by Artax

Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.

What do Mary Magdalene, Julian of Norwich, and other women in church history teach us about what it means to faithfully follow Jesus today?

In this episode of Hear Women, Nijay Gupta welcomes the Rev. Dr. Jennifer Powell McNutt, Professor of Biblical and Theological Studies at Wheaton College, Litfin Divinity School. As program director of the M.A. degrees in Theology and History of Christianity, and a Wheaton faculty member since 2008, Dr. McNutt has dedicated her career to uncovering overlooked voices in church history.

Their conversation traces Dr. McNutt’s early call to ministry, how her parents’ trailblazing roles and realism shaped her, and what it’s like to forge a path as a woman in academia. They talk honestly about what holds the church back from honoring the full scope of women’s contributions, past and present, and yet how their witness is an essential piece of church history. Dr. McNutt also shares fascinating stories of women such as Macrina the Younger and Teresa of Ávila, explaining how their faith, intellect, and leadership ultimately reveal Christ to us.

Listen in for wisdom that breaks stereotypes, inspires faithfulness, and calls us to remember the women the church too often forgets.

This episode highlights the following themes:

• Why many key women have been written out of the church’s story
• What it’s like to pursue ministry and an academic career as a woman
• How church history is richer, more complex, and more hopeful if we listen to women’s voices

Links from this episode:

• Learn more about Rev. Dr. Jennifer Powell McNutt
• Check out all of Dr. McNutt’s books
• Read Paula Gooder’s book, Phoebe
• Read Women in the Reformation by Kirstie Stjerna
• Learn more about Jeanne d'Albret
• Learn more about Lynn Cohick
• Read the transcript here
• Learn more about Hear Women
• Learn more about your hosts, Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young, Nijay Gupta, and Tara Beth Leach
• Read Redeemer by Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young
• Read Tell Her Story by Nijay Gupta
• Read Emboldened by Tara Beth Leach

SPECIAL OFFER | Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPHEAR40 for 40% off and free US shipping on any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.

FOLLOW THE CALL | Visit truett.seminary.baylor.edu to register for the inaugural Follow the Call: A Conference for Women in Ministry, hosted by Baylor University’s Truett Seminary. 

SPONSOR | Hear Women is sponsored by Northern Seminary, where thousands of women have been equipped to serve as pastors, practitioners, church planters, and ministry leaders across the globe. Explore your calling and visit seminary.edu to learn more.

Credits:

✅ Producers: Christine Pelliccio Melo, Helen Lee, and Travis Albritton

✅ Research Assistants: Abby Lee and Jazmin Rose

✅ Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts

✅ Social Media Manager: Makayla Payne

✅ Podcast Art: Kate Lillard

✅ Theme Song: "Organica" by Artax

Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.

As an Amazon Affiliate, this channel earns commissions from qualifying purchases when you use the links above.

What is a woman’s highest calling in God’s eyes? And how does the church sometimes miscommunicate about what this calling truly is?

In this heartfelt episode of Hear Women, Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young sits down with Sandra Glahn—author, seminary professor, and scholar—to uncover what it means to be a Christian woman when your life doesn’t fit the often expected script of marriage and motherhood.

Together, they open up about the unspoken struggles of infertility, the pain of failed adoptions, and the silent grief that many women carry. Glahn shares how church culture, outdated scholarship, and unseen suffering can leave women feeling adrift and unsure of their God-given purpose. Their discussion challenges the church to embrace lament, support all forms of grief, and recognize that a woman’s highest call is not limited to motherhood.

If you’re curious about a woman's place and purpose in Scripture, the church, and the academy, tune in to learn from Glahn’s expert biblical insights, clarifying wisdom, and comforting pastoral heart.

This episode highlights the following themes:

• Why a woman’s worth isn’t tied to motherhood
• The importance of lament and honest grief in the Christian life
• How Christian culture shapes a woman’s sense of purpose—and how to rethink those messages

Links from this episode:

• Learn more about Sandra Glahn
• Preorder Sandra Glahn’s book, A Woman’s Place Is in the Story
• Read Sandra Glahn’s book, Nobody’s Mother
• Check out Julie Fowler’s book, Treasures in the Waiting
• Read the transcript here
• Learn more about Hear Women
• Learn more about your hosts, Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young, Nijay Gupta, and Tara Beth Leach
• Read Redeemer by Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young
• Read Tell Her Story by Nijay Gupta
• Read Emboldened by Tara Beth Leach

SPECIAL OFFER | Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPHEAR40 for 40% off and free US shipping on any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.

FOLLOW THE CALL | Visit truett.seminary.baylor.edu to register for the inaugural Follow the Call: A Conference for Women in Ministry, hosted by Baylor University’s Truett Seminary.

SPONSOR | Hear Women is sponsored by Northern Seminary, where thousands of women have been equipped to serve as pastors, practitioners, church planters, and ministry leaders across the globe. Explore your calling and visit seminary.edu to learn more.

Credits:

✅ Producers: Christine Pelliccio Melo, Helen Lee, and Travis Albritton

✅ Research Assistants: Abby Lee and Jazmin Rose

✅ Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts

✅ Social Media Manager: Makayla Payne

✅ Podcast Art: Kate Lillard

✅ Theme Song: "Organica" by Artax

Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.

When social media feels like a noisy crowd of hot takes, how can Christians use their influence for good? What are the unique ways that the church can bring the radical hope of Christ to a context that can be toxic, addictive, and damaging?

In this episode of Hear Women, Nijay Gupta welcomes Jackie Horbrook—author, entrepreneur, and founder of Black Christian Influencers—to share her journey from growing up as a pastor’s daughter in Chicago to becoming an online “kingdom solutionist.” Through her wisdom and warmth, Horbrook describes how presence, intentionality, and vulnerability on social media can be an effective form of ministry.

Horbrook challenges limiting narratives about influence, spotlights the necessity of discernment, and shares what churches and individuals often overlook when it comes to listening to God’s call—both online and offline. The conversation reveals concrete ways that Horbrook is cultivating a community for Black women that is understanding, safe, and inspiring while also helping all Christians understand better how to use their God-given influence for his kingdom-building purposes.

Tune in for thoughtful reflections on calling, the pitfalls and potential of different social platforms, and how even a small act online can make a kingdom difference.

This episode highlights the following themes:

• Why every Christian, regardless of follower count, can be a force for good
• The pitfalls of digital comparison and the value of consistent, authentic engagement
• How to discern calling and build healthy boundaries online

Links from this episode:

• Learn more about Jackie Horbrook and Black Christian Influencers
• Read How to Be a Christian Influencer by Jackie Horbrook
• Learn more about Teri Ijeoma
• Read the transcript here
• Learn more about Hear Women
• Learn more about your hosts, Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young, Nijay Gupta, and Tara Beth Leach
• Read Redeemer by Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young
• Read Tell Her Story by Nijay Gupta
• Read Emboldened by Tara Beth Leach

SPECIAL OFFER | Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPHEAR40 for 40% off and free US shipping on any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.

SPONSOR | Hear Women is sponsored by Northern Seminary, where thousands of women have been equipped to serve as pastors, practitioners, church planters, and ministry leaders across the globe. Explore your calling and visit seminary.edu to learn more.

Credits:

✅ Producers: Christine Pelliccio Melo, Helen Lee, and Travis Albritton

✅ Research Assistants: Abby Lee and Jazmin Rose

✅ Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts

✅ Social Media Manager: Makayla Payne

✅ Podcast Art: Kate Lillard

✅ Theme Song: "Organica" by Artax

Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.

How is the new leader of Christianity Today bringing her full, authentic self to her new role? And how does her desire to lead with both confidence and humility challenge typical leadership scripts?

In this episode of Hear Women, Tara Beth Leach sits down with Nicole Massie Martin—president and CEO of Christianity Today—to talk honestly about what it means to lead as a woman and as a woman of color in both corporate and ministry contexts. Through their candid conversation, Martin reflects on formative moments when mentors affirmed her calling and when discernment wasn’t a linear process—revealing why her deepest leadership value is a constant dependence on Christ.

As Martin unpacks the realities of stepping into a high-profile Christian leadership role amid cultural tension, she shares why a “crucified” approach to leadership is exactly what the church needs right now. The discussion also highlights Martin’s vision for Christianity Today and her reflections on writing and releasing her book, Nailing It, amid a season of vocational discernment. 

If you’re craving a fresh vision for leadership that is adaptive, authentic, and joyful, this episode will empower you to serve those around you with your whole self and from a posture of radical dependence on Jesus. 

This episode highlights the following themes:

• How ethnicity and gender shape the leadership journey—and the gift of authenticity
• Developing a leadership ethic that is rooted in dependence, joy, and redemptive purpose
• Why apprenticeship, access, and inclusion are non-negotiable for women to flourish in the church 

Links from this episode:

• Learn more about Nicole Massie Martin
• Read Nailing It: Why Successful Leadership Demands Suffering and Surrender by Nicole Massie Martin
• Learn more about Christianity Today
• Learn more about Hunter Guy
• Read the transcript here
• Learn more about Hear Women
• Learn more about your hosts, Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young, Nijay Gupta, and Tara Beth Leach
• Read Redeemer by Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young
• Read Tell Her Story by Nijay Gupta
• Read Emboldened by Tara Beth Leach

SPECIAL OFFER | Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPHEAR40 for 40% off and free US shipping on any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.

SPONSOR | Hear Women is sponsored by Northern Seminary, where thousands of women have been equipped to serve as pastors, practitioners, church planters, and ministry leaders across the globe. Explore your calling and visit seminary.edu to learn more.

Credits:

✅ Producers: Christine Pelliccio Melo, Helen Lee, and Travis Albritton

✅ Research Assistants: Abby Lee and Jazmin Rose

✅ Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts

✅ Social Media Manager: Makayla Payne

✅ Podcast Art: Kate Lillard

✅ Theme Song: "Organica" by Artax

Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.

What does it mean to shape the church with a vision for true equality?

In this episode of Hear Women, Nijay Gupta hosts a spirited conversation with Mimi Haddad, president of CBE International (Christians for Biblical Equality), about her remarkable journey as a scholar, advocate, and “general in the gender wars.” Together, they reflect on the roots of gender roles in family and culture, break down the real meanings behind the terms “complementarian” and “egalitarian,” and discuss the importance of supporting the full expression of women’s gifts in the church.

From stories of immigrant upbringing and mentorship to the global drive for women’s leadership, Haddad invites listeners to consider how translation, tradition, and opportunity all shape what’s possible for women—and what the church loses when half of its members are sidelined. 

If you’re searching for tools to advocate for women, wrestle with hard questions about the Bible, or foster mentorship in your context, this episode points to tried-and-true resources. In contrast to recent events in the Southern Baptist Convention that aim to restrict women’s roles in the church, this episode reminds leaders everywhere that a flourishing church is one in which everyone’s gifts are welcomed and empowered. 

Discover the joys of standing for biblical equality, the progress that has been made in the church on this issue, and what legacy you can help leave for the next generation of women in leadership.

This episode highlights the following themes:

• How family upbringing and cultural background influence perspectives on gender roles
• The crucial role of mentoring and community for women in biblical scholarship and church leadership
• The impact of language and Bible translation on women’s visibility and empowerment within the church

Links from this episode:

• Learn more about Mimi Haddad and CBE International (Christians for Biblical Equality)
• Read Discovering Biblical Equality, Third Edition
• Read Priscilla Papers
• Learn more about Rt. Rev. Dr. Emily Onyango
• Discover more about IBR (Institute of Biblical Research)
• Learn more about mentorship opportunities with Every Voice Kingdom Diversity
• Read the transcript here
• Learn more about Hear Women
• Learn more about your hosts, Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young, Nijay Gupta, and Tara Beth Leach
• Read Redeemer by Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young
• Read Tell Her Story by Nijay Gupta
• Read Emboldened by Tara Beth Leach

SPECIAL OFFER | Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPHEAR40 for 40% off and free US shipping on any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.

SPONSOR | Hear Women is sponsored by Northern Seminary, where thousands of women have been equipped to serve as pastors, practitioners, church planters, and ministry leaders across the globe. Explore your calling and visit seminary.edu to learn more.

Credits:

✅ Producers: Christine Pelliccio Melo, Helen Lee, and Travis Albritton

✅ Research Assistants: Abby Lee and Jazmin Rose

✅ Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts

✅ Social Media Manager: Makayla Payne

✅ Podcast Art: Kate Lillard

✅ Theme Song: "Organica" by Artax

Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.

What does it mean to lean fully into embodied church leadership as a woman?

In this episode of Hear Women, host Tara Beth Leach sits down with pastor, writer, and leader Shawna Songer Gaines for an honest exchange about the realities of women’s leadership, the power of self-attentiveness, and the deep links between the body, motherhood, and ministry.

Through youth pastoring, chaplaincy, co-pastoring, and serving as a lead pastor, Gaines reveals how her journey has been marked by encouragement, transitions, setbacks, and the need to listen both to others and her own embodied self. The episode moves through vivid moments of ministry stress, early labor, and the formative power of motherhood, exploring how embodied self-awareness can transform our practice and experience of leadership. While offering wisdom for young leaders learning to find their voice, Gaines shares how she came to see pastoring through the fresh lens of midwifery, uncovering a more nurturing, humble, and relational model. 

Whether you’re a seasoned pastor, emerging leader, young mom, or someone hoping to create a more welcoming church, this conversation will equip you to more fully celebrate the gifts women bring to the church and reflect on what the church most needs to change about its approach to women in leadership.

This episode highlights the following themes:

• The importance of self-awareness and embodiment in Christian leadership
• How motherhood and crisis reshape the way women lead
• Why embracing newness strengthens the church

Links from this episode:

• Learn more about Shawna Songer Gaines
• Read Shawna Songer Gaines’ book, The Pastor as Midwife
• Discover more about Trevecca Community Church of the Nazarene
• Learn more about Michaele LaVigne 
• Learn more about Stephanie Lobdell 
• Learn more about Gabby Rodriguez at Trinity Church of the Nazarene
• Read the transcript here
• Learn more about Hear Women
• Learn more about your hosts, Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young, Nijay Gupta, and Tara Beth Leach
• Read Redeemer by Dorina Lazo Gilmore-Young
• Read Tell Her Story by Nijay Gupta
• Read Emboldened by Tara Beth Leach

SPECIAL OFFER | Visit ivpress.com and use the code IVPHEAR40 for 40% off and free US shipping on any IVP resource mentioned in this episode.

Interested in ordering The Pastor as Midwife for your team or organization? Contact Rainer at [email protected] for more information and exclusive group discounts. Or email [email protected] for bulk orders.

SPONSOR | Hear Women is sponsored by Northern Seminary, where thousands of women have been equipped to serve as pastors, practitioners, church planters, and ministry leaders across the globe. Explore your calling and visit seminary.edu to learn more.

Credits:

✅ Producers: Christine Pelliccio Melo, Helen Lee, and Travis Albritton

✅ Research Assistants: Abby Lee and Jazmin Rose

✅ Sound Engineering: Honest Podcasts

✅ Social Media Manager: Makayla Payne

✅ Podcast Art: Kate Lillard

✅ Theme Song: "Organica" by Artax

Disclaimer: The comments, views, and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the host and/or the guests featured on the podcast and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of InterVarsity Press or InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.

As an Amazon Affiliate, this channel earns commissions from qualifying purchases when you use the links above.