When we originally recorded "This Is California: The Battle of 187," we tried and tried to get an interview with former California Gov. Pete Wilson. He’s the man most responsible for making Proposition 187 a success. But Wilson’s people kept saying he was too busy — likely story, am I right? 

Then, one sunny morning, Wilson decided he was ready to talk.

This is Part Four of our rerun of the L.A. Times-Futuro Studios 2019 podcast series “This Is California: The Battle of 187,” about the 1994 California ballot initiative that sought to make life miserable for undocumented immigrants but instead radicalized a generation of Latinos in the state.

More reading:

Pete Wilson still defending Prop. 187 and fighting for a better place in history 

On Politics: Pete Wilson looks back on Proposition 187 and says, heck yeah, he’d support it all over again 

Column: Happy birthday, Pete Wilson. And thanks: You made California what it is