Hold the Pattern

25 years after 9/11, former Secret Service agent Darin Kinder tells the full story behind "Bury Me in a Dirty Suit": a burning stairwell, a fire truck he almost hid under, an angel a dying friend says he saw, and the anger it took him two decades to name. Plus: is apathy, not terrorism, the real threat to the Western church?

Resources Mentioned

Books:

• "Bury Me in a Dirty Suit: Discovering Man's Valiant Purpose in the Aftermath of 9/11" by Darin Kinder (Streamline Books, 2025), the book this episode is built around.

People Referenced:

• Tim Keller, cited for the line "anger breeds bitterness but righteous anger breeds action."
• Bill, a friend from Kinder's church life group, since deceased (ALS), whose account of seeing two angels beside Kinder anchors one of the episode's central stories.

Websites & Links:

• darinkinder.com
• fierce-faith.com

Four-time World Series champion Darryl Strawberry, author of Another Life, sits down with Dr. Jack Graham and Jeremiah Johnston forty years after his Game 7 home run. He talks about Gary Carter's faith in the 1986 Mets clubhouse, his mother's prayers, coming to Christ in 1991 with no one to disciple him, a heart attack, preaching in prisons and on death row, and a word for parents of prodigals. The Disputable Matter: should Christians bet on sports?

Scripture referenced

2 Timothy 1:13; Luke 15:11-32 (the prodigal son); Matthew 20:16; John 15:5 (the vine); Philippians 1:21; Romans 11:29; Acts 7:58 to 8:3 (Saul at Stephen's stoning); Hebrews 9:27; Matthew 25:21; Matthew 7:23; Ephesians 4:27; Matthew 7:12 (the golden rule); Romans 14:1.

Resources mentioned

• Another Life: Discovering the Healing Power of Purpose on My Long Journey from Player to Preacher by Darryl Strawberry
• Strawberry Ministries: strawberryministries.org
• The books of Billy Graham
• Dr. Adrian Rogers, quoted by Dr. Graham

Allen Parr built a ten-year YouTube ministry teaching Christians to spot false doctrine by knowing the real thing cold, the way a teller spots a counterfeit bill by studying genuine currency. Jack Graham and Jeremiah Johnston, PhD run that method against tongues-as-salvation, the prosperity gospel, and Christian manifestation, then turn personal: Parr was single until 40 because of a "soul chain" he did not know he was carrying, and Graham answers the hardest question in the room, why some of the godliest people die young, with his own father's murder at 56.

Books:

• Breaking Through: How Ordinary Believers Experience Extraordinary Freedom, Allen Parr, Nelson Books, 2026
• Misled: 7 Lies That Distort the Gospel and How to Discern the Truth, Allen Parr

People referenced:

• Jennifer Parr, Allen Parr's wife, married in 2015
• Joshua Broome, friend of Parr's, former pornography-industry performer turned minister; met his wife Hope, they attend Hope Church and lead Hope Ministries
• Charlie Kirk, the late Turning Point USA founder, discussed at length
• Kathryn Krick, self-styled "Apostle Kathryn Krick," named by Parr as an example of prosperity-gospel and false-prophecy teaching

Websites and links:

• allenparr.com
• youtube.com/@thebeatagp
• Book - https://link.amazon/B0eS3KuVo
• TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@allenparr
• Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/allengparr
• Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/allengparr
• X - https://x.com/allengparr
• LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/allenparr

Tony Evans has been saying the same thing for fifty years: God limits his presence to the level of our unity. Jack Graham and Jeremiah Johnston, PhD press him on what that costs, and Evans answers with the deacons who told him not to come back, the three-part strategy he hands to churches who mean it, and what he felt holding a Tyndale Bible in white gloves with a curator standing over him. Jack tells the Prestonwood story he has never recorded. Johnston tells the December 2000 story he has never told anywhere, and the man whose cassette tape is in it is sitting across the table.

Resources mentioned

• Unbound, the documentary series in production from The Urban Alternative. Evans says on tape it has grown from one film to three, with additional streaming material, and has roughly a year of filming left. Locations named: England, Ireland, Switzerland, Athens, Ephesus, with Israel still to come.
• The Tony Evans Study Bible (Holman). Jack brings his copy to the table.
• Peace of God Bible: Discover and Experience God's Shalom Throughout the Bible, NKJV, Thomas Nelson, by Jeremiah Johnston, PhD.
• Kingdom Politics: Returning God to Government, Tony Evans, Moody Publishers.
• Oak Cliff Bible Fellowship, ocbfchurch.org
• The Urban Alternative, tonyevans.org
• 2 Timothy 1:13, the show's name and the charge behind it.
• 2 Timothy 2:9, "the word of God is not bound," which is where Unbound gets its title.
• Psalm 128, Evans's one-passage answer.
• John 17, Acts 5:32, Acts 28:30-31, Matthew 16, Ephesians 1:22-23, Ephesians 3:10, 1 Peter 3:7, Mark 5, Hebrews 12:2.
•  William Tyndale, and papyrus 64 at Magdalen College, Oxford.

Links

• https://tonyevans.org/
• https://www.instagram.com/drtonyevans/
• https://www.youtube.com/user/drtonyevans
• https://www.facebook.com/drtonyevans
• https://x.com/drtonyevans

Rangers Hall of Fame catcher Jim Sundberg won six Gold Gloves and a World Series. His father's coaching never let up, so he swore he would never do the same to his own son, and then learned what the opposite cost. Dr. Jack Graham and Jeremiah Johnston talk with him about sports parenting, faith on the road, the armor of God in catcher's gear, and whether your child should play select sports.

Scripture referenced

• Ephesians 6:10-18 (the armor of God)
• Ephesians 6:16, (fiery darts)
• Galatians 5:22-23 (the fruit of the Spirit)
• 2 Timothy 1:13-14
• Proverbs 22:6 ("train up a child")
• Romans 14:1 (the source of The Disputable Matter's name)

Resources mentioned

• How to Win at Sports Parenting, Jim and Janet Sundberg
• Equipped to Win!: Suiting Up in the Armor of God for Spiritual Maturity, Jim Sundberg (2022)
• Legacy Playbook: 50 Days of Encouragement to Pass on What Matters Most, Jim Sundberg (2020)
• The Late Great Planet Earth, Hal Lindsey, the book he was reading in Toronto in 1977
• Seasons in Hell, Mike Shropshire, on the 1973 to 1975 Rangers
• Bible Study Fellowship (BSF)
• The Brief, the weekly briefing from Jeremiah Johnston, PhD and the Christian Thinkers Society
• Power Living, the weekly email from Dr. Jack Graham and PowerPoint Ministries

Jim Sundberg links

• Website - https://jimsundberg.com
• Book - https://link.amazon/B05XiRF63
• X - https://x.com/backstop10
• Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/JimSundbergSpeaks/

Butch Wilmore was flying a Boeing Starliner 300 meters from the space station when the fourth of eight aft thrusters failed, and no crewed spacecraft in history had ever lost that much control. He tells Jack Graham and Jeremiah Johnston, PhD what went through his mind, which was not a prayer for rescue but a calculation: dock or we may not get home. Eight days became 284. What he built his answer on, then and since, is Philippians 4, a Saturday-morning simulator nobody made him book, and a conviction that the aurora is a visible picture of God's protection of this planet.

Books:

• Stuck in Space: An Astronaut's Hope Through the Unexpected, Butch Wilmore, The Heirloom Press, 2026
• Life's Emergency Procedures: A Pocket Checklist for Life, with Craig "Z" Ziemba
• A devotional on the heavens, in manuscript. Wilmore says he used Psalm 8:3-4 in it two days before this recording.

Scripture cited on air:

• 2 Timothy 1:13, the show's name
• John 3:27, Wilmore's stated favorite
• Psalm 8:3-4, read aloud from Johnston's Bible
• Psalm 19:1, Romans 1, Genesis 1:1, Colossians 1, Hebrews 1
• 2 Corinthians 11 and Philippians 4, on contentment
• Isaiah 45:18, 2 Peter 3
• Romans 14:1, the Disputable Matter frame

People and places referenced:

• Suni Williams, his Starliner crewmate, also a Navy test pilot
• Providence Baptist Church, Pasadena, Texas, where he has been an elder 15 years
• Deanna Wilmore, his wife
• James Van Allen and Explorer 1
• Stan Barrett, stunt driver, a Graham acquaintance
• George Beverly Shea, "The Wonder of It All"

Links:

• butchwilmore.com
• x.com/butch_wilmore
• instagram.com/astro_butch

Introducing Hold the Pattern, a new weekly podcast from PowerPoint Ministries.

Starting Monday, October 19, Dr. Jack Graham and Dr. Jeremiah Johnston sit down with a different guest each week — astronauts, archaeologists, theologians, athletes, pastors — for honest conversations on faith, culture, and clear thinking.

Faith, thinking, and the patterns that hold us together.

Trailer is live at holdthepattern.org.