Star Wars fans Phil and Cam talk with Vito about Star Wars and the meaning they have got from the films. We talked about collaboration and the role it plays in doing great things - relinquishing having the courage to say no, and to have our work be critiqued openly. Co-design is not design by committee, and requires a vision and shared outcome. We finish with trying to work out whether greatness requires the vision of a singular person, whether than can be shared, and the role of the natural leader. Are we leaders because we choose to be leaders, or because others choose to follow?

*NO SPOILERS* This episode was recorded prior to the release of the latest Star Wars film and contains no spoilers.