This week, Kirsten and Jonathan discuss another difficult topic: misogyny and sexism in the Church. The hosts discuss how they were taught to think about feminism growing up, how early Church fathers shaped Christians’ views on gender and whether engrained sexism among some Christians primed the pump for Trump.

The duo also speaks with New York Times best-selling author Rachel Held Evans about whether the Bible prescribes a hierarchy among the genders and how she believes we should confront sexism in religious communities.