What starts as a fun story about Jay rediscovering his long-lost hardcore band Azalea — now going viral on YouTube decades later — quickly spirals into a no-holds-barred discussion on why so many businesses are unintentionally bad at creating customer loyalty. 

From restaurant mishaps to store credit-only return policies, and from logo-plastered swag to the weird world of early check-in fees, Jeff and Jay unpack real-life examples of how companies prioritize internal logic over customer empathy. Spoiler: it's hurting your brand more than you think. 

This isn’t about getting the job done. It’s about being exceptional — not in the flashiest ways, but in the most human ones. Exceptional businesses ask: 

Would I be thrilled to work with me? 

Would I refer myself with no incentive? 

Would I wear my own T-shirt if I didn’t own the company? 

If you can’t say yes with full confidence, there’s your clue: it’s time for a self-audit. 

What you’ll take away from this episode: 

- Why being “net zero” after a mistake isn’t enough to win trust 

- The problem with making returns hard — and why it drives customers away 

- How a ruined steak can become your best customer experience moment 

- Why forcing reviews before the service is done makes people cringe 

- How “business hat” decisions often fail the “consumer hat” test 

- The ROI of simply being easy to work with 

- And why putting your logo on cheap swag is usually about you, not them 

This is one of our most important conversations yet — especially if you’re building a business, leading a brand, or simply trying to do right by your customers. 

If the experience you offer wouldn’t excite you, it probably won’t excite anyone else either. 

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