In this conversation, Kirk David Phillips, CPA, CMA, CFE, CBP, and Jonathan Logan, an expert in psychology and neurolinguistic programming, explore the intersection of psychology, motivation, and the crypto world. They discuss the lessons learned from crypto, the importance of education, and the psychological impacts of scams. The conversation delves into the concept of agency, the enemies one faces in the crypto space, and the allure of winning that can lead to poor decision-making.

They also touch on the Dunning-Kruger effect and how it affects individuals' perceptions of their abilities in various domains. In this conversation, Logan and Phillips explore the themes of expertise, wisdom, the importance of education in navigating the complexities of investing and personal growth, the significance of emotional awareness in avoiding scams, plus the role of social proof in decision-making.

The conversation emphasizes the need for experiential learning and the importance of understanding one's locus of control. Also covered are the fraud triangle and the psychological aspects of risk management, concluding with a discussion on empowering people to take control in every aspect of their own lives.