In this episode of The Merge, we sit down with Michael Grinich, founder and CEO of WorkOS.

Checkout Coderabbit: https://coderabbit.link/themerge

Michael shares one of the best explanations of Product-Market Fit we’ve heard: it’s not the finish line — it’s more like getting the Mario Star. Once you have it, you become untouchable enough to survive your own biggest mistakes… but only if you keep innovating.

We also dive into:
- How to actually engineer PMF instead of just hoping for it
- Crossing the enterprise chasm that kills most startups
- Why product engineers are outperforming traditional teams
- The new authentication and permissions challenges for AI agents
- His optimistic (and very practical) view on the future of software development

If you're building a startup or scaling a product in the AI era, this conversation is full of actionable insights.

Connect with Michael:
X/Twitter: https://x.com/grinich
WorkOS: https://workos.com

Timestamps:
00:00 - Intro
02:45 - The Mario Star theory of Product-Market Fit
08:30 - How to engineer PMF instead of chasing it
15:10 - Crossing the enterprise chasm
22:40 - Product engineers vs traditional teams
31:00 - Building for AI agents & the new auth problem
42:15 - Michael’s take on the future of software development