In this episode, Max Bernstein sits down with Dorian Perron, Co-founder of Groover, to break down how artists actually grow on Spotify today through playlists, algorithms, and data-driven strategies.

Dorian explains why playlisting has become the dominant form of music promotion, replacing traditional outlets like blogs and radio, and how artists can use it to generate real audience growth. He also talks about the risks of artificial streaming, how to identify fraudulent playlists, and why engagement matters far more than follower count.

The conversation also explores how Spotify’s algorithm works behind the scenes, including the importance of early traction, popularity scores, and listener behavior. Dorian shares actionable strategies for artists to maximize campaigns, build momentum across platforms, and avoid common mistakes that can hurt long-term growth.

Key Takeaways

• Why playlisting has become the most important driver of music discovery
• How to spot fake playlists and avoid artificial streaming penalties
• Why engagement matters more than playlist follower count
• How Spotify’s algorithm rewards early traction and listener consistency
• The growing role of AI in music creation and its impact on the industry

Key Timestamps

00:00 - Introduction to the changing landscape of playlisting

04:42 - Identifying fraudulent playlists and avoiding artificial streams

09:12 - How to create successful independent playlists

14:01 - Using social media and ads to build playlist engagement

19:58 - Why territories like Brazil and Mexico are critical for growth

23:08 - How Spotify’s algorithm works and the importance of early traction

28:00 - What genres have the biggest indie playlists?

28:54 - The role of digital ads in Groover’s growth strategy

30:00 - What people think about AI generated music

37:29 - Where to follow Dorian and Groover for more tips and updates

Follow Our Guest, Dorian Perron

• Dorian Perron LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dorian-perron-44102177
• Groover LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/heygroover/
• Indeflagration LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/indeflagration/
• Dorian Perron Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dorianflagrant/
• Groover Music Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/groover.music/
• Groover Obsessions Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/grooverobsessions/
• Groover Website: https://groover.co/en/
• Indeflagration Website: https://indeflagration.fr/

Follow the Host, Max Bernstein:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mberns01/
• X: https://x.com/relationlco

Follow RELATIONL:

• Website: https://www.relationl.co/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@relationl
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/relationl/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/relationlco/