Sandy Hudson has been making the same argument for over a decade. For years she was attacked for it. In 2020, suddenly everyone agreed. And then, just as suddenly, the same people decided it had all gone too far and moved on.

In this episode, host Elad Nehorai sits down with Sandy Hudson, co-founder of Black Lives Matter Toronto and author of Defund: Black Lives, Policing and Safety for All, to talk about what that whole arc felt like from the inside, and what it reveals about how people decide what they're willing to see.

They get into why abolition is more logical than the system we have, why 2020 proved that major change is possible when there's the will for it, and why so many people found it easier to look away than to act. Sandy also challenges assumptions most people never question. Why do we send armed officers to enforce transit fares instead of just making transit free? Why has policing failed to address problems like domestic violence despite decades of promises?

They also discuss the backlash against Black Lives Matter, the innocuous tweet that critics seized on to discredit the entire movement, and what it felt like to watch people search for reasons to stop listening.

About Sandy Hudson:

Sandy Hudson is a writer, activist, and the founder of Black Lives Matter Canada. She co-founded the Black Legal Action Centre and the Wildseed Centre for Art & Activism, holds a JD from UCLA School of Law, and co-hosts the podcast Sandy and Nora Talk Politics. She is the author of Defund: Black Lives, Policing, and Safety for All. Find her on Instagram at @sandymhudson and BlueSky at @sandela.

Book: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/727367/defund-by-sandy-hudson/