How Technology and Automation are Revolutionizing the Property Management Industry

Today’s guest is Braedon Hebert.    Braedon is the Co-founder of CondoWorks, an accounts payable automation platform built for property management companies (condo/HOA/commercial/residential). He is also an accountant turned entrepreneur.   Show summary:  In this episode of the How to Scale Commercial Real Estate Show, Braden Hebert, co-founder of Condo Works, discusses the role of technology and automation in the property management industry. Hebert explains how Condo Works, an accounts payable automation platform, streamlines the accounts payable process for property management companies, reducing errors and saving time. He also emphasizes the need for strategic thinking when implementing technology. The discussion also covers the challenges of balancing customer needs with revenue potential, and highlights key features of the Condo Works software. -------------------------------------------------------------- [00:00:00] Intro [00:01:33] The Challenges in Property Management [00:09:29] The Importance of Technology in Scaling a Business [00:11:27] The importance of technology and automation [00:13:04] Using technology to establish escape velocity [00:18:07] Automating utility downloading and invoice approval -------------------------------------------------------------- Connect with Braedon:  Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/braedonhebert/   Web: www.condoworks.co   Connect with Sam: I love helping others place money outside of traditional investments that both diversify a strategy and provide solid predictable returns.     Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HowtoscaleCRE/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samwilsonhowtoscalecre/ Email me → [email protected]   SUBSCRIBE and LEAVE A RATING. Listen to How To Scale Commercial Real Estate Investing with Sam Wilson Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-to-scale-commercial-real-estate/id1539979234 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4m0NWYzSvznEIjRBFtCgEL?si=e10d8e039b99475f -------------------------------------------------------------- Want to read the full show notes of the episode? Check it out below: Braedon Hebert (00:00:00) - So part of our technology will automatically download all those all those types of utility invoices then extract the data. So to eliminate any sort of data entry required then it can be approved and paid.   Intro (00:00:15) - Welcome to the how to Scale Commercial Real Estate show. Whether you are an active or passive investor, we'll teach you how to scale your real estate investing business into something big.   Sam Wilson (00:00:28) - Braden Hebert is the co-founder of Condo Works, which is an accounts payable automation platform built for property management companies. Braden is also an accountant turned entrepreneur. Braden, welcome to the show.   Braedon Hebert (00:00:40) - Yes. Thanks, Sam. Glad to be here.   Sam Wilson (00:00:42) - Absolutely. The pleasure is mine. Braden. There are three questions I ask every guest who comes on the show in 90s or less. Can you tell me where did you start? Where are you now? And how did you get there?   Braedon Hebert (00:00:52) - So as you alluded to, my I got my start as an accountant working for one of the big accounting firms, then went to a big company. But I entered the the startup and tech world about a decade ago in that role.   Braedon Hebert (00:01:05) - And that's where I met my current co-founder, who's the who was the chief technology officer of that first company. And so my path was was in the startup tech world in those finance roles. I went through some acquisition acquisitions throughout that, but wanted to take the leap into the the early stage incubation stage of a company and joined him as a as a co-founder of Condor Works.   Sam Wilson (00:01:33) - That's really cool. What is the what is the opportunity that you guys see? I guess you know, one, the startup tech world is highly competitive. And, you know, I can't imagine jumping into that. That's something that kudos to you guys, you know, for being willing to take those those risks I think that's really cool. But what's the opportunity that you guys see in what you're doing right now. And why is now the time to do it?   Braedon Hebert (00:01:58) - So maybe I'll go back to the to the very beginning. So one of the things that my, my co-founder did, in addition to helping build and develop companies, is he also became the treasurer on his condo board.   Braedon Hebert (00:02:10) - And that's where he saw firsthand some of the the challenges that face property management companies when it comes to processing and paying their bills. So there's there's a high invoice volume. There's multiple stakeholders plus complexity, not from the accounting side, but operationally, if you're trying to keep track of discrete financial records across all of your properties, the the accuracy and routing and recording of those invoices is critical. But but complex because paired with those challenges, it's also an industry that has been slower to adopt some of the more modern technological solutions. And so, for example, he was signing hundreds of checks every month. He was seeing vendors taking six months to get paid. And, you know, when you calculate the internal cost to the property management companies, it can cost 15 to $20 per per invoice just to pay that. So he said, well, this is awful. Ben being the tech guy he is, he said there's there must be a better way and I'm going to build it. And so that's that's how calendar works was born.   Braedon Hebert (00:03:17) - And it was. And we see that that pain that still exists across across many property management companies.   Sam Wilson (00:03:23) - Got it. No, that's really interesting. How does this differ. And forgive my ignorance here because I neither run a tech startup. I don't run a accounts payable automation platform. And um, yeah, anyway, forget what else, I don't run. But anyway, all of those being said. When it comes to accounts payable. In my mind, I think, gosh, I mean, it seems like you could just get ACH set up out of your various bank accounts, you receive your invoices, you ACH or vendors, and off you go. Why is it not so simple?   Braedon Hebert (00:03:56) - So I would I would back up. You know, paying it can sometimes be the easy part. It's it's the, the full cycle being receiving or getting the invoices than having it properly approved, entering that information into the accounting system. So recording that invoice and then and then issuing payment. So you know our platform handles that end to end with with tech and automation built in throughout that process.   Braedon Hebert (00:04:26) - So I'll you know, one of our my favorite examples is is a utility bill. So you know, gas power, water even, you know, the telecom bills. Um, either they're they're coming in the mail a couple of weeks later, then you're rushing to pay them, or someone has to spend time logging in and clicking, downloading, download, invoice, download, invoice downloading. So we we know some of our customers were spending days just doing that. So part of our technology will automatically download all those all those types of utility invoices then extract the data. So to eliminate any sort of data entry required then it can be approved and paid. And so a lot of that upfront work in terms of just handling the invoices can be eliminated, which once you get to a certain scale, you know, some some of our customers are processing thousands, 10,000 invoices a month. And so that that can really add up, uh, across the team.   Sam Wilson (00:05:26) - And the opportunity for.   Sam Wilson (00:05:29) - Error.   Sam Wilson (00:05:30) - I mean, just becomes magnified where it's like, did we get that utility invoice that's emailed, actually paid, and did it get logged properly? And we're counting on, which is just crazy in 2023, we're still counting on human touch on some of those things where it's like.   Sam Wilson (00:05:48) - And so no, I see what you're saying. And that makes a lot of sense, especially for property management companies that are handling, like you said, you know, thousands potentially of invoices a month and going, gosh, is this is this being properly logged? I mean, even for us at just the handful of facilities that we own it, we're trying to put those processes in place where it's like, hey, this is. The is that paid this month, I don't know. So there are some similar meetings we were having just recently were like, is that okay? No, this needs to be a system like very, very tight knit system. Maybe we're not saying.   Braedon Hebert (00:06:16) - Hey Sam, our lights went out. What happened? Oh, shoot. That that invoice that I guess we didn't get it didn't forgot to pay it. And. Yeah, that's the worst that can happen.   Sam Wilson (00:06:27) - Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. You get a disconnect notice and you're like, how do we. And which we haven't had a disconnect notice.   Sam Wilson (00:06:33) - But I'm just thinking worst case like you're saying like lights went out or you get a disconnect. How is this happening. And I can see.   Braedon Hebert (00:06:38) - How it happens. That was a theoretical example of course.   Sam Wilson (00:06:41) - Right, right. Luckily it has not happened to us. But that is I mean, I could see it very easily happening accidentally or it's like we don't know how we missed that. So that's that's really cool. Can you tell me we talked about this a little bit before we kicked off the show? You use the word condo more broadly maybe than what I would say here in the States. Can you define really kind of the the broader scale of the product that you guys are developing in the, in the what condo means?   Braedon Hebert (00:07:09) - Yeah. So yeah, I had said our current branding gives away a bit of our origin. So maybe if I say the word aboot or process or process, I'll also give away my Canadian roots. So we got our start in Ontario. In Canada where we're condo is kind of the catch all term for a HOA or community or association.   Braedon Hebert (00:07:32) - And that's that's where we got our start. And that was the the branding and the website that was that we've been developing. But our goal more broadly is to be is to be a solution for, for all types of, of property management companies. So whether it's the condo HOA association as well as commercial residential. And I was actually looking up our customer roster. We have a senior lifestyle management company in the Tennessee area as well. So it's it's you know, the the challenges are similar. And it's from a branding. It's something that's on the on the strategic table for us. But yeah, thank thanks for bringing that up. Uh, just to be able to help. Yeah. Broaden the conversation and to help to clarify that.   Sam Wilson (00:08:18) - Right. Right. Because I mean, your product could very easily be deployed across industrial facilities or industrial property managers to multifamily property managers to, I mean, anybody that's managing a large portfolio of assets that, like you said, you know, has has an incredible accounts, payroll.   Sam Wilson (00:08:35) - Or accounts payable. Excuse me. If I could speak today, you know, invoices coming in. You need to have that product where you can reasonably take those in, make sure they get paid, and then do it again without without making sure that there's a manual process to keep track of that. So, Braden, one of the things that you said in the onboarding question, I always asked us and again, for those of you that listen, what's a fun fact or surprising view in one of the views that you put in there, Braden, was that tell me a company's tech stack, and I can tell you the growth rate. I think that's really, really interesting. What does that mean?   Braedon Hebert (00:09:08) - I. Yeah. Like the the question prompted. Trying to be a bit controversial or edgy but so we've. You know in building this company and talking to hundreds or property management companies, you start to see different patterns. And as a, as a business, it's in you know, real estate in general is often it's is quite local.   Braedon Hebert (00:09:29) - And there are, you know, there are companies that's, that's that's their focus. That's that's where they want to go. But there's others that I call it a bit. I use the term escape velocity for those that are able to, to, to build a company that expands. Into a wider geographic area. And so there's there's a, you know, in property management specifically, there's there's their startup costs, although the switching costs are low. So it's really it's relatively easy to create your own. If you're a property manager, you get four properties. You can you can exist as a standalone business. But those that obtain the escape velocity are the ones that, that, that, that have that extra is that whether it's ambition or operational excellence, to be able to, to grow and specifically think manage people is a huge part of that. Beyond, you know, beyond their local area, beyond the, the, the, the greater metropolitan areas that they ran into to, to, to to grow into a much, much bigger footprint.   Braedon Hebert (00:10:31) - Um, and so I and I the other pattern is that the, the use of technology is a common characteristic of those companies that are able to obtain that escape velocity. So operationally they have to be be sold. They the managing of people is is a huge part of that. But the being able to adapt and and effectively use with the modern technological tools that exist can really help those companies to, to, to grow at a higher rate than, than others who, who aren't necessarily doing that.   Sam Wilson (00:11:10) - I think that's a really insightful observation. It's not something I would have thought about, but what are some of the things, I guess, that as as you see those various companies that are willing to embrace technology, willing to embrace automation, like.   Sam Wilson (00:11:27) - What.   Sam Wilson (00:11:27) - Does that say about them? Because there's more to it than just, hey, I like technology and automation. There's something about their mindset. And their approach.   Braedon Hebert (00:11:37) - Is, yeah, it's not chasing the new shiny thing, but it is a it is a mindset that exists that they're thinking about how to how to improve their business.   Braedon Hebert (00:11:48) - So they're they're not chasing the, you know, every the everyday fires. They're able to elevate it and think strategically. So, you know, it's not about, hey, we're it's not just, hey, we're we have these cool tech toys. It's it's they're thinking strategically about how to just effectively manage their business. And, you know, the the tech they use is a part of that. But it is a common pattern that we've observed amongst those companies that do seem to have a have a higher growth rate than others that aren't there.   Sam Wilson (00:12:18) - Yeah. No, I think that's, that's that's really insightful. And you said not putting out fires because it takes time. I mean, it takes time to think through. Yeah. There's automations. There's there's there's technology out there. But implementing it is a discipline I think. I know at least it is for me. Maybe I'm not that bright and I'm certainly not tech savvy. And so for me, it's harder to be like, okay, how are we going to use this tool effectively in our business? And then how does it act? Or how can we structure it such that it solves problems without creating a whole pile of new ones that now is now just more work? And so I think that's but figuring those things out to where you're getting beyond the day to day, like, okay, hey, this is how this technology solves problems and saves us time and money is really, really cool.   Sam Wilson (00:13:04) - What how did how do you view that as it pertains to your business? Like what are what are you guys currently doing to use tech to establish or get that escape velocity that you need?   Braedon Hebert (00:13:19) - Yes. Yeah. It's it's. So I, we had a meeting with our or some of our investors last night and they, we're also guilty of that as well in that being able to focus on your current customers and you want to provide a good, good level of service for them and a really good experience. And that can often trump, you know, you know, Trump thinking about, okay, this is this is I need I need time to work on the business. So I was working in the business, working on the business and carving that out. And that's where one of the benefits of of having, you know, whether it's a board of advisors or your business, business groups that you may be in is is it does act as a forcing function for you to, to to think about the business and how to how to improve it.   Braedon Hebert (00:14:08) - Um, for, for tech, one of the benefits of being a tech company is that we can build a lot of our own, our own solutions, right, to help that. So we we've we got our start in in about late 2019 and we've seen it growing across Canada, United States, different different types of property management companies. But we've managed to do so and and multiply the footprint of the company without multiplying the amount of people that we need to support that customer base. And so that's that's having a discipline from a product development standpoint, not to just focus on new features or the shiny things for us are being, you know, new things for us develop. It's also being able to focus on, you know, how do we make our system as efficient. That not only helps us, but it does also help our customers in that they're they they have less, less questions. And there's there's things that make it easier for them. So it does come down to to discipline though, at the end of the day, to, to force yourself to take that step back.   Sam Wilson (00:15:10) - It is hard. It is absolutely hard. We in the in our laundry facility business, you know, we use software inside of that and it's interesting to watch and it's newer, not completely new, but they're still constantly solving problems. And there's even, you know, there's even forums where we can put in feature requests where it's like, hey, you know, we'd love to see, you know, XYZ on our point of sale or whatever, you know, whatever the the feature is. And I would think for you guys, that same thing probably is true where people are constantly saying, hey, what's, you know, can we have this feature? Can we add that? Can we add this? How do you prioritize those in what's maybe a problem that you guys are actively internally trying to solve that you haven't solved yet?   Braedon Hebert (00:15:53) - The prioritization question is is tough because everybody has their. Yeah has has. Yeah that's what they want. So you have to balance. One is is this a is this a one off for this one customer.   Braedon Hebert (00:16:08) - Some of them are are louder than others. And so you have to consider is this broadly applicable. Will feature customers find this attractive. And also you have to also wait that as to the revenue potential as well. And so we've had some of our as we've grown we've gotten bigger customers that have have have pushed us in a good way to develop the features that they, as a bigger company, need for their scale. And so that's that's been, you know, how we have prioritized those, those features and. Terms of what's on our on our roadmap. The some of the ones that I'm, I'm personally most excited about is like is to help. There's a lot of similarities and applicability be going from, you know, HOA or communities to commercial and residential. Um, there are certain nuances to, you know, outside of the HOA space that that do differ. And so it's it's there are certain features that would be very well received by certain. Potential customers that we've had conversations with in the, in the commercial space, um, for example, or even in, in rather than being third party managers, you're an asset manager where you own everything versus in the space, you're managing independent hoa's.   Braedon Hebert (00:17:39) - And so, um, being able to, to achieve that vision, the more broad of of being able to cater to property management more broadly, um, building off of that, that HOA Association condo, um, base.   Sam Wilson (00:17:54) - Got it. That's really, really cool. All right. Last and final question for you is what's something about your software or your solution maybe that I haven't asked that you would want to make sure that we cover.   Braedon Hebert (00:18:07) - Well, we spoke about the the automated utility downloading, which is is one of those eye catching features as boring as it sounds. Um, yeah. But everyone, even personally, everyone hates dealing with their utility bills. So if we can automate that, that's that's something that that people really, really enjoy. I there's if I can say to you, so what if if, if, if you're if your current operations include handling paper whether that's receiving invoices on paper, having a cabinet that you store everything in or signing, signing paper checks, you know if that can if you can envision that going away.   Braedon Hebert (00:18:53) - That's that's yeah. Especially when we talk to owners, oftentimes they're the ones who sign the checks. And it's like, okay, what happens if you go on vacation? Well, you know, I signed a bunch before I leave and then I have a huge stack when I come back. Okay. Well, you know, the the the conveyor belt doesn't have to stop running. Uh, in those, in those scenarios. Um, so that's one and I think the other one that in the larger scales is, is being able to really configure, um, who needs to approve what invoice. And so it's reducing a lot of the noise, but also automating how who needs to approve what invoice and when and enforcing that. So one, it reduces work, but also it helps enhance internal controls to make sure that invoices are being properly, properly screened. So that's that's we're getting a little deep there. But that's know that's the stuff that we care about though.   Sam Wilson (00:19:43) - Those are huge pain points that you're solving for though especially that invoice.   Sam Wilson (00:19:49) - I mean, at least that one that invoice approval speaks to me where it's like, you know, as we grow, I go, my gosh, you know, I don't want to be in front of every invoice that comes through the door and have to be the one that signs off on like, oh, yeah, okay. You know, whatever it is we're say we're. Redoing a facility the paving contractor sends there. Like, I mean, there should be a way to and again, maybe that's just a, you know, small example that doesn't doesn't apply. But I think there's you're touching on some things that everyone thinks about and is trying to figure out a way to solve. So that's very, very cool. Braden, thank you for taking the time to come on the show today. I certainly enjoyed it. It was great learning about what you guys do, how you do it, and the opportunity you guys see in the market right now. And it sounds like it's being very well received.   Sam Wilson (00:20:34) - So this has been a blast having you on today. If our listeners want to get in touch with you and learn more about you or your product, what's the best way to do that?   Braedon Hebert (00:20:41) - So our website is Conoco. So not not.com but.co. And so that's that's our website. And then our we're most active on LinkedIn which where you can find me on there as well as as Conda works on LinkedIn.   Sam Wilson (00:20:59) - Fantastic. We'll make sure you include that there in the show notes. Braden, thank you again for your time today. This was certainly a blast. I do appreciate it.   Braedon Hebert (00:21:06) - Okay. Thank you. Sam.   Sam Wilson (00:21:07) - Hey, thanks for listening to the How to Scale Commercial Real Estate podcast. If you can do me a favor and subscribe and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, whatever platform it is you use to listen. If you can do that for us, that would be a fantastic help to the show. It helps us both attract new listeners as well as rank higher on those directories.   Sam Wilson (00:21:28) - So appreciate you listening. Thanks so much and hope to catch you on the next episode.