This is a conversation we had with a brand new show called How the Hell Did We Wind Up Here! John's a great guy and we talked about our thoughts on why and how the world is as it is today, with context from our our personal upbringings and perspectives, as well as some ways to push through the bullshit. Check him out on IG @howthehelldidwewinduphere and give his show a listen! https://open.spotify.com/show/3Gi2sJLVyZmXIRoZJ7NkvI

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