In today's episode, recorded late in 2017, Steve Tannen, one half of the American indie band The Weepies, and I laugh a lot. Steve shares a story about how being told he sucked at songwriting actually led to him writing one of the Weepies most well-loved songs! He also shares about:

- Not killing your songs by overthinking them

- Why collaborating with his partner, Deb Talan, works

- How "song challenges" have made a difference &

- Why persisting in failure, obscurity and success is key.