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If you're a marketing leader, you should be studying Kyle Lacy's career.

* Pioneered content marketing in B2B at ExactTarget (acq. for $2.5B by Salesforce)

* Scaled Lessonly's marketing team from 7-80 people.

* Drove 20X revenue growth with marketing consistently sourcing 70%+ of revenue.

* Now CMO at a publicly traded company (Docebo, $1.1B market cap)

* And most importantly. When most CMOs last <18months, he hasn't been fired once.

He came on my podcast and shared the lessons he wish he'd learned at the start of his 17 year career. We covered:

* Why ABM doesn't work (and how to fix it)

* Sales, marketing & CFO alignment advice that isn't "just have a weekly pipeline meeting".

* Elevating marketing to a strategic partner, not an order taker.

* 'Surpsise and Delight' in practice.

* How he builds 'high horspower' marketing teams.

* How he got to CMO before 35.

* Pipeline modeling for dummies (and smarties).

* Avoiding burnout as a leader and a dad.

and more.

My favorite takeaways:

1️⃣ Why ABM Doesn't Work (and How to Fix It)

ABM fails because marketers overcomplicate it with technology and processes. Kyle's Fix:

* Start small with 20 accounts, not 5,000. Get sales leadership involved in account selection from day one ("don't come with the answer, ask the question").

* Build a test with clear success metrics ($15-20 of pipeline per dollar spent), prove it works, then scale.

* Focus on helping AEs hit quota capacity, not just generating stage one pipeline. Use a combination of air cover (ads, content) and human outreach (BDRs, AEs doing prospecting).

2️⃣ How to Get Sales, Marketing & CFO Alignment

The CFO sees sales and marketing as one line item against blended CAC. When they have $100K to spend, it should be a joint conversation between sales and marketing leaders about where that money goes - not a fight for separate budgets & who gets credit.

So, as a marketing leader, you should know how AEs are doing, where pipeline stands, and what the sales forecast looks like. Misalignment shows up when marketing celebrates brand campaigns while missing bookings targets.

3️⃣ 30% Rule to Balance Brand & Demand

It's easy to get sucked into predictable demand investments. Especially with pressure from above. But this hurts you in the long term. Kyle always makes sure to allocate at least 30% of his spend to creative, illogical bets that won't have clear ROI. Surprise & delight direct mail is a great place for this spend to go.

4️⃣ Building High Horsepower Marketing Teams

Kyle doesn't choose between doers and managers on his teams; he looks for both. High-horsepower practitioners who can set a sharp strategy and are excited to execute. You'll get better results, and it'll be more fun.

Thanks so much for listening!Have any guests you’d like me to interview for future episodes?Let me know, I read all the replies :)

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