What if the best thing you could do as a leader was to make yourself obsolete?

In this episode, Stefani Schwartz joins Catherine Jelinek to unpack why the old "hero leader" model (the one where you're the chief problem-solver carrying the weight of the team on your back) is driving record-high burnout (56% and climbing in 2025) and quietly suffocating the talent around you.

After two decades as an executive, Stefani burned out living in that paradigm. Now, as the founding practitioner of Be Generative and a professional EOS Implementer, she helps leaders shift from controlling outcomes to shaping environments and from seeing the world as a problem to solve to a possibility to step into.

In this conversation, you'll learn:

• Why the hero leader model is breaking down across five generations in today's workforce
• The hidden "fixer" voice that hijacks how leaders listen
• How to step into a room with presence instead of an agenda
• The discipline of cutting through your own noise to focus on what actually matters
• Why questions are doorways and how to ask better ones
• The difference between managing business systems (science) and leading human systems (art)
• How to build an autopoietic team that self-generates without depending on you

Chapters:00:00 – Welcome & introducing Stefani Schwartz01:24 – The noise inside modern leadership03:36 – From hero leader to generative leader04:14 – Five generations, one workplace07:00 – Signs you're stuck in the old paradigm08:06 – The "fixer" and the stories that shape how we listen12:27 – Problem-driven vs. possibility-driven leadership14:17 – The inner and outer steps to making the shift19:36 – Leadership as art, not science23:51 – Inside Be Generative's workshops and 12-week program26:31 – Parting wisdom: don't be afraid to make yourself obsolete

About Stefani Schwartz:Stefani is the founding practitioner of Be Generative, a professional EOS Implementer, and the founder of Roots to Rise. Her work helps leaders and teams break out of outdated leadership patterns and build adaptive, self-sustaining organizations.

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