This podcast is a conversation with Willem Toet, an ex-F1 aerodynamicist who worked at Benetton, Ferrari, and Sauber, and is now working with us on Project Inversion - our project to prove that a formula car can drive upside down on the ceiling of a tunnel.

In this podcast, we talk about how Willem approached designing a car for such an unusual project, how he developed through 38 versions of the car's design, and how we're protecting the driver, me, if it all goes wrong.

The podcast also includes a familiar face, Callum McIntyre, who has been researching, writing, and presenting on our Driver61 and OVERDRIVE channel for the past three years.

It's a fascinating discussion, and the podcast gets better and better as you get into it. So, this is the Driver61 Podcast, and here's our discussion with Willem Toet.