This episode starts with dreaming and ends with dreaming - and in between, Luke Bateman takes us through everything that happens when you stop letting yourself do it.

Luke played professional rugby league for the Canberra Raiders - 71 first-grade games, thousands of hours of training camps and hotel rooms and locker rooms - and in almost all of that time, he kept his love of fantasy fiction completely hidden. The shame of it, he says, was shaped by a very specific idea of what it meant to be a man. And unpacking that idea has been the work of the last several years.

His whole life, it turns out, has been a dreamer's journey. He just had to go through a lot to get back to it.

We explore:

• The specific culture of professional rugby league and what it meant for his sense of self, his gambling addiction, and his mental health
• The inner child and parts work that was central to his recovery - including making peace with the version of himself he'd been most ashamed of
• What it means to call men in, rather than calling them out
• The men who went silent during his crisis, and what that silence told him about being a man.
• His two favourite books - and the one that brought him home to himself after rehab

[Recorded Online April 2026]

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About Luke Bateman:

Luke Bateman grew up in Miles, western Queensland, where rugby league was the dominant culture. He played 71 NRL first-grade games as a lock for the Canberra Raiders before a chronic knee injury ended his career at 24. After leaving the game, he returned to rural Queensland, began posting book reviews to TikTok from a tractor in 2025, and within months had signed a two-book fantasy series deal with Atria Books Australia (Simon & Schuster). He now hosts his own podcast, In the Good Books, appeared on I'm A Celebrity Australia in early 2026, and is writing his debut fantasy novel, due in 2027.

Connect with Luke:

• Instagram: @lukebateman_
• TikTok: @lukesreads
• Podcast: In the Good Books on Spotify and on Apple Podcasts

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Connect with Humans, being:

• Web: humansbeing.au
• Instagram: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
• Facebook: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
• Threads: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
• TikTok: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
• YouTube: @humansbeingwithlaelstone

Humans, being. is produced on the lands of the Bunurong and Wadawurrung people. We pay respect to their unique and diverse cultures and to elders past, present and future.

There's something about a Missy Higgins song that lands in your chest before you've even registered the words. Somehow, she gets to the feeling first - the part of you that you haven't quite found language for yet.

Missy's music has been part of the soundtrack to my life for over twenty years, especially in my mothering years. So sitting across from her, I was a little bit in awe. Missy’s so generous in her honesty about the hard stuff: the writer's block that made her question her whole identity, the divorce that undid the story she thought her life would tell, the ADHD diagnosis that reframed so much of her past, and the slow, deliberate work of learning to live in her body rather than just her head.

We also talk about parenting two neurodiverse kids while navigating your own neurodiversity, the strange alchemy of songwriting (expression first, connection second), and what it feels like to fall in love again in your forties when you finally know what you actually need.

We explore:

• The gift of neurodiverse children when you're still learning about your own neurodiversity
• Why she started seeing a therapist to help her get out of her head and back into her body
• What she hopes her kids carry with them: that they're okay, and that they are worthy of love
• Repartnering after divorce - what it means to finally want a partner rather than a project

Missy left me thinking about the stories we carry about ourselves - the ones that keep turning up, the ones we think we've put down for good.

[Recorded May 2026]

About Missy Higgins:

Missy Higgins is a Melbourne-born singer-songwriter whose career spans more than two decades and four consecutive-decade ARIA No. 1 albums. Her debut album, The Sound of White (2004), became one of the best-selling Australian albums of its era, and by 2024 she had accumulated nine ARIA Awards and was inducted into the ARIA Hall of Fame. Her most recent album, The Second Act, was written in the aftermath of her divorce - largely alone, at night, once the kids were asleep - and debuted at No. 1 on the ARIA chart in 2024.

Connect with Missy:

• Website: missyhiggins.com
• Instagram: @missyhigginsmusic

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Connect with Humans, being:

• Web: humansbeing.au
• Instagram: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
• Facebook: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
• Threads: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
• TikTok: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
• YouTube: @humansbeingwithlaelstone

Humans, being. is produced on the lands of the Bunurong and Wadawurrung people. We pay respect to their unique and diverse cultures and to elders past, present and future.

Amantha calls her AI 'Sunny'. She talks to it on the drive to the gym, like she's chatting to a friend. And it has quietly changed how she works, how she writes, and how she gets the thinking out of her own head.

Dr. Amantha Imber is one of the sharpest, most generous humans I know. An organisational psychologist, the founder of Inventium, host of How I Work, the first Australian to win a Thinkers50 Innovation Award, the author of four bestselling books, and her brand new one, The Energy Game, lands in July.

In this episode, we discuss Amantha's burnout year and the tiny experiments that crawled her back, the ones she calls boosts, rest, and protect. Why "fake rest" (Netflix while you scroll) won't fill the bucket. And we talk about the childhood praise imprint that drives so many of us: what if the goal isn't to be more, but to be okay with being ordinary?

We explore:

• The pressure we accept being human and thinking we must do it all
• The hit-by-a-bus fantasy and what it tells us about how women carry stress
• AI as a thought partner, and how Amantha uses it without losing the human bit
• What we want for our daughters, and the thinking skills we don't want to outsource

[Recorded January 2026]

About Amantha Imber:

Dr. Amantha Imber is an organisational psychologist and the founder of Inventium, a behaviour-change consultancy that works with companies including Google, Apple and Lego. She also runs Inventium AI, focused on AI capability building inside organisations. Amantha hosts the How I Work podcast (over 6 million downloads) and recently launched a new podcast, How I AI. She is the first Australian to win a Thinkers50 Innovation Award and is the author of four bestselling books, including Time Wise and The Health Habit. Her new book, The Energy Game, is out on 7 July 2026.

Connect with Amantha:

• Instagram: @amanthai
• Inventium: inventium.com.au
• Newsletter: One Percent Better
• Podcasts: How I Work, How I AI
• Book: The Energy Game (out 7 July 2026)

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Connect with Humans, being™:

• Web: humansbeing.au
• YouTube: @humansbeingwithlaelstone

Australia’s Kindest Person:

Australia’s Kindest Person is a national campaign created to help shine a light on the people whose kindness has made a real difference in the lives of others. To nominate someone, please visit:

australiaskindestperson.com.au

Humans, being™ is produced on the lands of the Bunurong and Wadawurrung people. We pay respect to their unique and diverse cultures and to elders past, present and future.

The question I get asked the most by parents is, "Does this work?" So this week I sat down with two of the people most qualified to answer it.

For the better part of two decades, I have been teaching parents to parent differently. To skip the punishments and the rewards. To look behind the behaviour. To make space for big feelings instead of shutting them down. And the whole time, in the back of my mind, has been the quiet question every parent asks themselves... am I getting this right?

My answer was always going to come from my kids. So this episode, I'm joined by two of them, Indi (22) and Tali (18), and we are talking honestly about what it was like growing up in our house. The mistakes I made. The chocolate I tried to bribe Tali with when I was tapped out. The 4am phone call that taught all of us what safe really means. The big feelings that were always welcome, even when I had nothing left.

This is not a polished retrospective. It's messy and tender, the way our family is. We talk about staying true to yourself in a world that wants you to conform, what social media is doing to young people, why the friends pushing the boat hardest are the ones hurting most, and the little life skills that come from a house where no topic is off limits. It's also a love letter from a mum to her children who turned up, told the truth, and did not throw me too far under the bus.

We explore:

• Why looking behind the behaviour beats grounding every time
• What it actually looks like to repair when you have lost it as a parent
• Staying true to yourself when society and social media are pulling the other way
• Therapy, aunties, and the village every kid needs around them
• Looking at the so-called "bad kid" and asking what is hurting

[Recorded January 2026]

About Indi and Tali Gaal:

Indi is 22, and Tali is 18. They are Lael and Mike's kids, siblings to Ky (25), and the people Lael calls her best work. Both have spent time working with young children and bring that lens, plus their own lived experience of being raised the way they were, into this conversation.

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Connect with Humans, being™:

• Web: humansbeing.au
• Instagram: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
• Facebook: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
• TikTok: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
• YouTube: @humansbeingwithlaelstone

Australia’s Kindest Person:

Australia’s Kindest Person is a national campaign created to help shine a light on the people whose kindness has made a real difference in the lives of others. To nominate someone, please visit:

australiaskindestperson.com.au

Humans, being™ is produced on the lands of the Bunurong and Wadawurrung people. We pay respect to their unique and diverse cultures and to elders past, present and future.

There's a version of strength the world rewards – capable, tireless, always fine. And then there's the cost.

Gorgi Coghlan is someone I've adored from the moment we met. She's formidable, warm, wildly accomplished, and the kind of person who makes you feel seen immediately.

We talk about the imprints that drive us – the little girl who worked hard to be seen by a father whose love came through providing, not presence.

We explore:

• The hidden cost of being "the strong one"
• Internal vs external boundaries - why protecting your own cup is the whole point, not the selfish part
• Reconciling with a parent before it's too late, and what it means to carry that love with you
• Highly sensitive people: the superpower of reading the room, the cost of being depleted by it, and why Gorgi thinks HSP will be our next big cultural conversation
• "I haven't even begun." Gorgi's mantra at 50, and why she went back to drama school, just because she could

Gorgi talks about who's advocating for her. Here is this extraordinary woman – accomplished, giving, deeply loved – and she still needs to hear herself say it out loud. YES. You are allowed to need something. You are allowed to ask for it. Even if – especially if – you've spent a long time being the one who doesn't.

[Recorded January 2026]

About Gorgi Coghlan:

Gorgi Coghlan is a former Year 12 science and biology teacher turned broadcaster, presenter, and performer. She spent over a decade as co-host of The Project and The Circle on Channel Ten, and as a reporter and presenter on the Today Show on Channel Nine. An extraordinary singer, Gorgi performs live with her friend in their show Songbird – and is also now a voice on ABC Radio. She runs a hospitality business with her husband Simon, and is a devoted mum to her teenage daughter Molly.

Connect with Gorgi:

• Instagram: @gorgicoghlan
• Biz: The Buninyong Hotel
• Songbirds: Theatre Royal, Hobart, Jul 5. Tickets

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Connect with Humans, being™:

• Web: humansbeing.au
• Instagram: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
• Facebook: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
• TikTok: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
• YouTube: @humansbeingwithlaelstone

Australia’s Kindest Person:

Australia’s Kindest Person is a national campaign created to help shine a light on the people whose kindness has made a real difference in the lives of others. To nominate someone, please visit:

australiaskindestperson.com.au

Humans, being™ is produced on the lands of the Bunurong and Wadawurrung people. We pay respect to their unique and diverse cultures and to elders past, present and future.

"What am I making this mean?" That question might change how you move through conflict with your partner. Because the real work isn't making your partner wrong…it's getting curious about yourself.

I wanted to talk about what makes relationships tricky and what makes them actually work, and in this episode, I share my own story; how I went from completely collapsing whenever Mike got upset, to finally learning how to hold my centre. How we survived the brutal early parenting years when we were both drowning and how post-traumatic stress cracked me open and forced me to do the real work.

Over many years of working with families, I have learned that you can't make your partner do the work. All you can do is do your own, and trust that something shifts when you stop waiting for them to change and start looking at what's yours to heal.

I explore:

• Why we unconsciously choose partners who mirror our childhood wounds
• How attachment styles (anxious, avoidant, disorganised, secure) show up in your intimate relationship
• The power of asking "what am I making this mean?" when you're triggered
• What it feels like when your childhood wounds meet your partner's defences
• The three paths your relationship can take when one person is doing the work and the other isn't
• How coming home to yourself is the greatest gift you can give your relationship and your kids

I keep coming back to the people in relationships right now who are absolutely exhausted. Those who are doing the work, holding the space, trying to communicate better. And I want to say this… the fact that you're asking "what's here for me?" instead of "what's wrong with them?" means you're already transforming your relationship. Maybe not with your partner yet, but definitely with yourself.

[Recorded Online November 2025]

About Lael Stone:

Lael Stone is an educator, counsellor, and author of Own Your Story: Understanding your past to create your future. With over 20 years of experience working with families, Lael helps people understand how their childhood imprints shape their adult lives – and how to do something about it.

Connect with Lael:

• Instagram: @laelstone
• Website: laelstone.com.au

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Connect with Humans, being™:

• Web: humansbeing.au
• Instagram: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
• Facebook: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
• TikTok: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
• YouTube: @humansbeingwithlaelstone

Humans, being™ is produced on the lands of the Bunurong and Wadawurrung people. We pay respect to their unique and diverse cultures and to elders past, present and future.

There's a strange kind of comfort in staying exactly where you are – even when that is hurting you. In this episode, I’m talking with clinical psychologist Dr Emily Musgrove, and we discuss why the familiar feels safe even when it isn't, and what it actually takes to find our way back to ourselves.

An imprint I have - from watching the busy women in my family – was that if you're not doing three things at once, you're lazy. That's the thread Emily and I pulled on together. We both grew up watching women just go, go, go – and then spent years unravelling what that cost us. Emily talks about returning from holiday and instantly flipping into doing mode. I talk about the moment I realised my anxiety was actually working for me - keeping me safe from being seen.

Her book Unstuck grew from that reckoning. We talk about secondary gains (the hidden payoff in staying the same), the concept of the near enemy of kindness, what perimenopause might really be releasing in us as women, and the childhood imprints that shape who we become – and who we pass that on to.

We explore:

• How to start building compassion when “love yourself” feels like too big a leap - and why Emily starts with the inner critic, not against it
• The dinner table analogy that reframes your relationship with your own harsh inner voice
• Why empathy and compassion aren’t the same thing - and which one protects people who hold space for others from burning out
• Why we unconsciously stay in painful patterns – and the concept of secondary gains that explains more than we’d like to admit
• The “near enemy” of kindness - how self-sacrifice quietly masquerades as a virtue

[Recorded Remotely October 2025]

About Dr Emily Musgrove:

Dr Emily Musgrove is a clinical psychologist based in Perth with over a decade of experience helping people find their way back to themselves. She is the beloved resident psychologist on The Imperfects Podcast - where she draws on real conversations to offer evidence-based strategies people can actually use. Her book, Unstuck: A Guide to Finding Your Way Forward to the Life You Want to Live, was released in May 2025.

Connect with Emily:

• Website: dremilymusgrove.com
• Instagram: @dremilymusgrove
• Book: Unstuck (available in print, ebook and audio)

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Connect with Humans, being™:

• Web: humansbeing.au
• Instagram: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
• Facebook: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
• TikTok: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
• YouTube: @humansbeingwithlaelstone

Humans, being™ is produced on the lands of the Bunurong and Wadawurrung people. We pay respect to their unique and diverse cultures and to elders past, present and future.

Libby Trickett surfaced from the pool at the Beijing Olympics, saw the number one next to her name, and waited for the feeling of being enough. It didn't come.

Libby is mum to five children, including baby Archie, who was snuggled on her chest throughout our entire conversation. She opens up about postnatal depression after her first daughter, Poppy, about the Father wound that quietly drove her to the pool every single day, and about the moment she realised that winning gold wasn't going to make her whole. We also explore her passionate advocacy for keeping girls in sport.

We explore:

• The relentlessness of early motherhood, and why admitting it's boring sometimes is actually the most honest thing you can say
• What Libby's postnatal depression cracked open in her - and why she now sees it as one of the most important experiences of her life
• The Beijing gold medal, and the moment Libby realised that winning the thing she'd wanted her whole life, still left a void
• Libby's advocacy work around girls and sport: why participation drops off and what we can do about it
• The only thing that matters in parenting - and why it's not organic food, sleep training, or getting the birth story "right"

What I keep coming back to, sitting with this conversation, is Libby saying: "I was always enough." Seven Olympic medals, world records, five children - and still, that simple truth was the hardest thing to find. What I love about Libby is that she's doing the work. She's right in it. And she's raising five little humans to know their enoughness from the start. To me, that's the most important gold medal of all.

[Recorded Remotely October 2025]

About Libby Trickett:

Libby Trickett is a seven-time Olympic medallist with four gold medals who represented Australia at three consecutive Olympic Games and held world records in the 100m freestyle throughout her career. She is a mental health advocate, author of the memoir Beneath the Surface, and a fierce advocate for keeping girls in sport. She lives with her husband, former swimmer Luke Trickett, and their five children.

Connect with Libby:

• Instagram: @libby_trickett
• Podcast: Play Well series - 8 Eps on Sportish

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Connect with Humans, being™:

• Web: humansbeing.au
• Instagram: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
• Facebook: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
• TikTok: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
• YouTube: @humansbeingwithlaelstone

Humans, being™ is produced on the lands of the Bunurong and Wadawurrung people. We pay respect to their unique and diverse cultures and to elders past, present and future.

There are conversations that feel like they're about one thing, but they're actually about something else entirely. This one starts with laughter… and ends up in a tender place.

Ryan Shelton is such an excellent human. He's one third of The Imperfects alongside Hugh and Josh van Cuylenburg, and a face on Australian screens for the better part of two decades, from Rove to Hamish & Andy. I knew going into this chat that it'd be warm and funny and real.

We talk about what it costs to keep seeking approval, the psychology behind why so many of us are still waiting for someone to say "it's your turn now," and the surprising power of small, silly, seemingly pointless things. Ryan's beautiful quote - delivered with perfect comic timing and complete sincerity - might be my favourite callout from the whole season so far: "Silliness is worth taking seriously."

We explore:

• The fear that stops you putting creative work into the world - and what actually happens when you finally do it anyway
• "Juvenile condition" - the Adlerian psychology concept that explains why so many adults are still waiting for permission to start their own lives
• Laughter as a nervous system response - and why it shows up in the strangest, most inconvenient moments
• The "three-sided column" from The Courage to Be Happy - and how it changes who you think is responsible for your life
• Why silliness might be the most underrated form of connection and healing we have right now

All the fear, the procrastination, the need for approval. The creativity, the silliness, the courage it takes to put something out there, even when you're scared. Ryan reminded me to take that a lot more seriously - and to laugh a lot more while I'm doing it.

[Recorded January 2026]

About Ryan Shelton:

Ryan Shelton is one of Australia's most beloved comedians and writers. After two decades in Australian television - from Rove Live to co-writing Chris Lilley's We Can Be Heroes and producing Hamish & Andy's The Gap Year, True Story, and Perfect Holiday - he's now one third of The Imperfects, Australia's leading mental health podcast, alongside Hugh and Josh van Cuylenburg. In late 2025, he opened his debut solo art exhibition in Fitzroy: All This Work, Just For This. He takes silliness very, very seriously.

Connect with Ryan:

• Instagram: @ryansheltonography
• Podcast: The Imperfects Podcast

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Connect with Humans, being™:

• Web: humansbeing.au
• Instagram: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
• Facebook: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
• TikTok: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
• YouTube: @humansbeingwithlaelstone

Humans, being™ is produced on the lands of the Bunurong and Wadawurrung people. We pay respect to their unique and diverse cultures and to elders past, present and future.

I grew up with Ali Daddo on my wall. And like so many of us, I looked at that image and thought - that's it. That's what it means to arrive. What I didn't know - what none of us knew - was that even being the ‘it’ girl comes with challenges.

This beautiful conversation really opens up about the pressures we feel as a woman, from the tween and teen years, into motherhood and menopause. We explore Ali's "standing in front of a 747 jet engine" image of society's pressure not to age, and what women actually find on the other side of all that noise.

We also get deep about long-term love - Esther Perel's three marriages to the same person, (what it takes to reinvent in the third one), and what "making art from a marriage" actually looks like in practice.

We explore:

• The "currency" of appearance: what we inherit, what it costs us, and what happens when the market changes as we age
• The grandmother whale theory: why Ali believes women stop being fertile because they're meant to lead
• Reinventing long-term love post-menopause
• Aviiana, the wellness platform Ali co-founded with Mary Doube, and the whole vision to help women thrive with confidence
• What it feels like to finally be "out of the game you never asked to be in" - and why that might be the most liberating thing that's ever happened to us

Ali is a little further down this path than me and I am so grateful to have her shining a light from up ahead. What she's showing me is that the other side isn't smaller. It's more. More voice. More space. More of yourself. 💛

[Recorded Remotely November 2025]

About Ali Daddo:

Ali Daddo began her career as one of Australia's most recognisable models and presenters before spending 25 years in the United States, where she worked as a birth assistant and Steiner early childhood educator. She's the author of Queen Menopause: Finding Your Majesty in the Mayhem, co-host of ‘The Heart of It’ podcast with hubby Cameron Daddo, co-founder of the women's wellness platform Aviiana, and host of the Foxtel LifeStyle wellness series, Gen Well.

Connect with Ali:

• Website: aviiana.com.au
• Instagram: @alidaddo
• Podcast: The Heart of It

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Connect with Humans, being™:

• Web: humansbeing.au
• Instagram: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
• Facebook: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
• TikTok: @humansbeingwithlaelstone
• YouTube: @humansbeingwithlaelstone

Humans, being™ is produced on the lands of the Bunurong and Wadawurrung people. We pay respect to their unique and diverse cultures and to elders past, present and future.