Talking to the Amazing Burns from Montrose Scotland ( recently moved own to Southampton- with his English wife)- creator of the Swan

Montrose is the home of James Esdaile - who's name is given to that state - the Esdaile state that has natural anesthetic as a property.

Bob Bunrs is always an interesting guest - and creator of the process in therapy called the Swan- https://www.bobburnshypnotherapy.com/