Brian Von Herbulis spent nearly 17 years leading special operations units with the US Marine Corps, including a number of combat deployments. So nature, and being outdoors, has always been therapeutic for him. As the Director of Operations for Higher Ground, a Move United member organization based in Idaho, Brian, or Von as he is known as, helps provide outdoor recreation and adventures for other veterans. So we discuss this, and particularly the sport of ice climbing, with him.